Heroquest returns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Braxandur]

I'd rather receive something, as I'm quite sure I will not be receiving a full refund.  I'm hoping any lawsuit results in more of a "get your foot out of your ass and get the production going" vs. "refund your investors with...whatever money you have left" etc.

That is exactly what I am hoping on as well. And seriously, it seems that a lot has been produced, but gamezone just can't seem to get his sh*t together

[beefcake]

And asking people to pay their shipping about 6 months+ ago was just another way to get some extra cash. I just want something. Cut out a load of the unnecessary stuff like that dragon/serpent etc

[Elbows]

This is the most confusing thing for me.  There are YouTube leaks (or promos) of various miniatures, game mechanics, etc.  There have been pictures of the warehouse with huge piles of minis etc.  While slow, it looked for a while like they were actually doing something.  They gave out the size of the box and the weight it would be etc.

This will be my first huge failure from Kickstarter (I'd count Palladium but I at least got part of that order) if it all goes to nothing.  Simply put they should ship the base box game and then the additional stuff later (ie. we'd never get the bonus materials).  It just seems like the guy behind this has completely collapsed or become delusional in his lack of success.

I get a sneaking feeling we'll get a sub-par game or a measly compensation of 20-30% of the money we actually paid.  Or they'll go full Prodos and ship out the game to retailers and never ship us our stuff.

[Braxandur]

This will be my first huge failure from Kickstarter (I'd count Palladium but I at least got part of that order) if it all goes to nothing.  Simply put they should ship the base box game and then the additional stuff later (ie. we'd never get the bonus materials).  It just seems like the guy behind this has completely collapsed or become delusional in his lack of success.

lucky you... I already had the demons and devils and tomb of horors kickstarters from centre stage miniatures as well as the Artistic Justice Games kickstarters that performed rather abysmally for me... still waitin on the Assimilation host by troll forge as well...  quite some bad experiences have been had... 

still some still turn out great.
AVP was very bad in timing, but the product/sculpts are terrific!
Tre Manor, despite the issues also delivered a top quality product.
Spectre Miniatures had very nice models, but very bad customer support.
Still waiting on a lot of shadows of Brimstone, nut I guess that will turn out nicely.
Mongoose it's Judge Dredd KS almost feels like a never ending story
Heresy miniatures.. well.. I stil hope I'll get everything.

Overall, I had one (board) game producer that went very slow/did not (yet) deliver (AJG), but mainly had problems with kickstarters purely aimed at producing miniatures. Off course, this can be the other way around in about a year

[beefcake]

edit. blank post. Ignore me

[Elbows]

edit. blank post. Ignore me

I always do, buddy! 

[beefcake]

 

 

[ced1106]

This is the most confusing thing for me.  There are YouTube leaks (or promos) of various miniatures, game mechanics, etc.  There have been pictures of the warehouse with huge piles of minis etc.  While slow, it looked for a while like they were actually doing something.  They gave out the size of the box and the weight it would be etc.

Late reply, but Prodos showed us with Aliens vs. Predator that, even if you have mini's in boxes, or even minis on display at game industry shows, you're not getting your miniatures anytime soon. I suspect that AvP backers are now getting their mini's because of the funding from Prodos / Archon's LOAD KS. (This is the same thing that happened with Prodos' Mutant Chronicles Warzone.)

Anyway, if you haven't been following the BGG HQ25 forum, Lazanos is now suing GameZone for a "guarantee withholding" which amounts to a fair amount of money compared to Lazano's annual income. Backers aren't getting any of this money and, since Lazanos does not otherwise host boardgame crowdfunding projects, Lazanos doesn't care about its reputation among the boardgame community. Quotes are from Spanish poster Aitor, who has been following the Spanish Darkstone forum.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1625934/plot-thickens-lanzanos-sues-gamezone-over-17000-de

Before HQ25, Lanzanos was almost exclusively hosting NGO solidarity projects, books, and short movies promoting social awareness. Most of them had goals under 3000€. They never had a "boardgames" category, and their "videogames" category has ever hosted 3 projects total. HQ25 is their biggest project by a large margin.

In normal conditions, Lanzanos would not be a platform for a project like HQ25. But the guest had been rejected from 2 other platforms, and the host couldn't resist having a project with a 6 digit goal.

So, Lanzanos knows that HQ25 is a one-time exception, and its backers are one-time customers. If they end up having a negative view of Lanzanos, who cares?

Making some numbers, Lanzanos claimed to have funded around 3 million for around 500 projects during 6 years (before HQ25). They work with a 5% commission. This means their rough income is about 0.05*3m/6 = 25,000€ per year. So, for Lanzanos, those 17,500€ may be comparable to a year of net income.

Lanzanos already got their cut. I have asked in Darkstone about the deposit, and user Marte2014 kindly explained the following:

It's called guarantee withholding. Typically it guarantees the culmination of a project. It may be tied to a due date, probably GZ has already claimed it but Lanzanos thinks that they don't have to return it for the execution of the guarantee. The lawsuit is the result of their disagreement.

Beyond the nature of the deposit (guarantee withholding), the rest of details are pure speculation, as those things are contractually arranged, so we can't tell anything for sure until reading the contract between GZ and Lanzanos.

Those kinds of agreements are very common in the building sector.

Finally, if you're thinking of a refund, here's a reply Alex got:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1356894/release-date/page/4

The refund is not possible, and there's no turning back because to the advanced state of the project.
Your generous cooperation soon will be rewarded with a great product, that will be send to your address.
You must understand, HQ25 as a crowdfunding, and as the rest of crowdfunding, is not a purchase, disposal or pre-sale. It´s a cooperation, and that does not refund.

We continue working on the project and we will deliver it.

Thanks
Isabel

Please do not reply to this message, we will not receive it.

[Timbor]

Man, what a mess! Hopefully it shows up eventually for you guys (just like AvP showed up... eventually).

Would hate to see GZ go under for this too... they make such nice stuff.

[Elbows]

I've pretty much written this off.  If a box shows up in a couple more years...swell.  If not, screw em.  Needless to say Gamezone will never get another cent.

[beefcake]

Yep. I've written it off too. I knew the risks getting into this one so, honestly, I'm not worried. It wasn't a huge amount to invest into the game. I still find it hard to believe some people get so up in arms about this sort of thing. Then again I have quite a laid back attitude.

[ced1106]

I still find it hard to believe some people get so up in arms about this sort of thing.

How much money did you pledge in this project? IIRC, Without add-ons, anyone pledging paid $100+ for the game, and $50+ for shipping to the US.

[beefcake]

My comment was an exaggeration.

I can understand it but everyone knew the risk involved though, KS wouldn't let them get it started. I don't believe that GZ have been fraudulent in their dealings just poor management.

So basically I find it hard to believe because this was always a risky venture. If you can't stand losing a few bucks wait for it to come out in retail.

[beefcake]

I occasionally check in on the HQ site.
Apparently they are showing it at some show in Madrid in December... Hate to be the guys fronting that stand.

http://www.heroquestclassic.com/expocomic-2016-2/

[Elbows]

And something tells me they're going to hire some new guys who know nothing and throw them under the bus..."Hey, welcome to the team, have fun! (slap on the back)".