MAYHEM expanded!

[VoodooInk]

One more thing, if you don't mind. I should probably download the new war machine rules to find out (should download them, period), but what happens with bases if you want to use one of those humongous, goofy war machines from GW?

Ideally, you would want the basing to be a derivative of your standard army basing so that things line up nicely. So in your case, it could be something like and 80mmx160mm [or 160mmx160mm]. That said, for war machines especially, you could easily just use the bases that they come with little to no effect on the game.

[grubman]

I just purchased this last night and I like what I'm reading so far...but, and not to sound like a whiney bitch, is there any chance you might make an additional file of this any time soon with a bigger font size?  Good lord, my 45 year old eyes need a magnifying glass to read this  .  There aren't any real illustrations, so It wouldn't take any real reformatting.  Some diagrams and illustrations (even of common sense things like firing arcs) would be nice too to break up the text and help to find where things are quicker.  Just saying.

I know that sounds negative, but I haven't read through the rules yet, and these are things I'm having a "problem" with.   To me, presentation means a lot...and if I had a glance at the rules before I purchased them (instead of going off of reviews I read) I probably would have taken a pass, based on presentation alone.

Again, I don't mean to sound like a complainer, but all my gamer friends are in their 40s, and many of them, like me, need glasses to read, but not for anything else...so to have a rulebook at the table with a font this small makes playing a game hard as you are taking off and putting on your glasses and refocusing constantly.

Purely selfish post.

[Conquistador]

I just purchased this last night and I like what I'm reading so far...but, and not to sound like a whiney bitch, is there any chance you might make an additional file of this any time soon with a bigger font size?  Good lord, my 45 year old eyes need a magnifying glass to read this   .  There aren't any real illustrations, so It wouldn't take any real reformatting.  Some diagrams and illustrations (even of common sense things like firing arcs) would be nice too to break up the text and help to find where things are quicker.  Just saying.

I know that sounds negative, but I haven't read through the rules yet, and these are things I'm having a "problem" with.   To me, presentation means a lot...and if I had a glance at the rules before I purchased them (instead of going off of reviews I read) I probably would have taken a pass, based on presentation alone.

Again, I don't mean to sound like a complainer, but all my gamer friends are in their 40s, and many of them, like me, need glasses to read, but not for anything else...so to have a rulebook at the table with a font this small makes playing a game hard as you are taking off and putting on your glasses and refocusing constantly.

Purely selfish post.

As an older wargamer I hear your desires  but I don't see type font as a presentation issue like color photographs of miniatures (pretty but a waste of time in rules IMO but I was a printer's son so go figure,)  it is a more significant issue.  My father (RIP) was a hand compositor and always said (paraphrasing) small fonts were useful but if they make the reading of a book or newspaper more difficult then the reading won't be done which might apply here.  Actually once when working a 4.5 point font for a paperback he said anyone who uses a font under 8 points for a book should be reprimanded publicly and anyone using a font size under six should be beaten.

See (can't believe I am praising Wikipedia) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_%28typography%29 which explains the basics of font sizes.

That said re-formatting is not always just a case of highlighting and picking a new font because that turns into a layout issue.

What is the font size of the rules?

Gracias,

Glenn

[grubman]

My (unused) degree from Lakeshore tech is actually in printing, ha ha.  I do my own layout for all my own products (illustrations most of the time ).  In the day of PDFs I can't see any reason to purposely try to keep page length on such a short document down.  A font size of 10 is minimum (imho).  I think this would be a better product at 48 pages with a larger font, some tone setting b&w illustrations, and a few diagrams to break up the text.

Just opinions from a guy who has to "sell" people on the games he wants to play.   an attractive eat to read and use book goes a long way to getting people interested in the effort it takes to miniature game.

[Conquistador]

<snip> an attractive eat to read and use book goes a long way to getting people interested in the effort it takes to miniature game.

Tasty but fast...  Fast Food rules, you read it here first...

Couldn't resist, sorry.

Gracias,

Glenn

[Conquistador]

<snip>

Just opinions from a guy who has to "sell" people on the games he wants to play.   <snip>

That resonates with me.

Gracias,

Glenn

[grubman]

Ha ha, yeah, I can't edit or quote with my phone on this forum for some reason.

[Conquistador]

Ha ha, yeah, I can't edit or quote with my phone on this forum for some reason.

That is better than my excuse - 1950s education in Los Angeles...

Gracias,

Glenn

[VoodooInk]

What is the font size of the rules?

The font and size of the body text is Times New Roman at 9pts. The font size was chosen mostly based on Bringhurst's 'rule' for elements of typographic style stating that 66 characters per line [including spaces] is optimum for legibility and comprehension based on line length. I also referenced the works of Emil Ruder and Tom Brown in the selection of font type/size in relation to line-height.

...is there any chance you might make an additional file of this any time soon with a bigger font size?

Hi grubman! Bringhurst's rules aside , I can definitely look at doing this and don't think that it will be too much of a problem. I like to do what I can to please as many of my customers as possible and lower any barriers to getting my games on the table. I can't promise any illustrations though [or give you a hard timeline] as I have a few projects in the works with some looming deadlines. And as Glenn already stated, re-formatting is not always just a case of highlighting and picking a new font because that turns into a layout issue. If you were able to request a font size, then what would the ideal one be for you?

I just purchased this last night and I like what I'm reading so far...

Now, that's what I like to hear! 

[Vermis]

Now, that's what I like to hear! 

I finally started giving 'em a proper read tonight, and I can say the same as Grubman. Only thing so far, is that I wonder if one disorder token is enough to let units stick around for any length of time; but then I take some time to get used to new rules. I see people (mostly Warhammer fans) with the same complaint about Kings of War, which doesn't worry me.

Ta for the extra basing replies too. 80mm could also be useful for basing ogres, of both regular and rat variety; but I might still stick to 60mm, especially if I have to perch units on the edge of a stronghold. I'll cut out some paper squares and see how things stack up.

[VoodooInk]

I wonder if one disorder token is enough to let units stick around for any length of time; but then I take some time to get used to new rules.

It's interesting that you say that. I've had more that a couple gamers say the same things after a read through only to come back after their first game with thoughts that it's too difficult to eliminate units using disorder due to the rally ability [especially with heavy armor]. A couple of games later they are looking at things totally differently and really delving deep into the meta of army creation. I think you'll go through a few different feelings on subject before it all really comes together tactically in play. I will say that taking the default 'at the proper times' can really put the pressure on your opponent to get lucky and possibly do something stupid.

Taking the actual unit stats out of the equation, you also have to consider:
1. the supporting units involved in the melee
2. soft and hard counters
3. command points currently available
4. other threats, possible counter charges, and priorities
5. the possibility of the 'attacker' being disordered or eliminated in combat

Not only that, but sometimes it's better to put multiple enemy units into disorder [instead of eliminating a single one for example] to make your opponent spend command points simply trying to get everything under control. Many times you'll find that crippling or disrupting multiple units is more advantageous than pushing your resources to eliminate a single one. It's all about the situation.

[Funghy-Fipps]

'Mayhem' really is one of those games that you have to play to comprehend. I agree that some of it does sound weird on reading, but when transmuted onto the tabletop makes perfect sense.

[BaronVonJ]

Here's my take, Also posted elsewhwere:
http://baronvonj.blogspot.com/2013/11/thursday-night-mayhem.html

[Vermis]

I probably won't be using too many more minis per base - especially not with big, chunky GW ratmen - but I think I'd appreciate the extra space to arrange the swarming hordes all pretty like. Ta for the response!

Finally read through the whole thing. I think hordes and great hordes might satisfy my itch for diorama bases. Most of it, anyway.

I'm starting to convert stats from the skaven army book, but to make it just a touch smoother and more concrete: Brent, what are your suggestions for a bog-standard unit of human troops? What would be, in the warhammer statline, threes across the board (except A, W, and Ld), with light armour. I'm thinking Mov d6, CQ d12, BAR d12 - what say you? Also, what kind of leadership for a standard human army?

I'm a bit confused about the proper application of Heavy Armo(u)r and Shields. Do you have to take them into account and adjust the CQ & BAR downwards? Or just stick on a high CQ & BAR and whack HA and Sh on top of them? Are there circumstances where you can or should take a high CQ & BAR to (partially) represent heavy armor or shields, but leave those add-ons at home? (E.g. you have a bunch of skaven clanrats with shields that you'd like to repurpose for Mayhem, but with at least one horde of them. Is it more appropriate to use the regular unit's core profile for the horde, or can you bump the horde's C&B up a notch to represent the shields on the models?)

Lastly, what weapon do you suggest to represent halberds?

[capthugeca]

Are there circumstances where you can or should take a high CQ & BAR to (partially) represent heavy armor or shields, but leave those add-ons at home?

I would say yes. My angels have spears and breastplates but I ignore both of the add-ons and have made them a horde with pretty high CQ and BAR.