Zorro timeline discussion question

[Conquistador]

I certainly hope I have not posted to this forum this question before, if so, I apologize in advance and will delete/request deletion of the thread.

While cleaning out some space for miniature storage I came across my Zorro figures and this spawned memories of this thread: http://pjfarmer.com/woldnewton/Zorro.htm which caused to consider how, as wargamers, some of us try and tie all sorts of things together for our games (others go the other extreme and design games specific for our collection/interests.)

So, here is my question - given this as a (debatable) true statement -"... Most versions follow the original Walt Disney series, which was set in the 1820s. This is true of the silent film The Mark of Zorro starring Douglas Fairbanks, the Topps Comics series, and all of the television versions. While widely agreed on though, this date may actually be a little late from a historical perspective. Mexico won its independence from Spain, and control of California in 1820. Most Zorro stories make reference to California being a Spanish possession and this argues for an earlier date..." do you think Zorro games should be set in the 1820s?  Or earlier?  Or possibly Later??  If earlier, how earlier?  And most importantly (well, this is war games and some would question importance of such) why would you move the dates of "common perception" implied in the thread sited above if you could?

Gracias,

Glenn

[white knight]

There's a link in Zorro themed blog to a site where someone attempted to merge the different sotrylines and incarnations into a chronology that sort of makes sense. It might be an interesting read.

http://www.pjfarmer.com/woldnewton/Zorro.htm

As for me, I just paint the miniatures (in black and white) based on the Disney series and I don't bother myself with the hard questions as it's not a historical game anyway. 

[Yuber Okami]

I would say: go for the period which best fits your present range of miniatures. It is a question of economy of forces!

[Conquistador]

There's a link in Zorro themed blog to a site where someone attempted to merge the different sotrylines and incarnations into a chronology that sort of makes sense. It might be an interesting read.

http://www.pjfarmer.com/woldnewton/Zorro.htm

As for me, I just paint the miniatures (in black and white) based on the Disney series and I don't bother myself with the hard questions as it's not a historical game anyway. 

Um, I mentioned/quoted that web site in the OP.   

 

Gracias,

Glenn

[Conquistador]

Well, I was just thinking "Why" tie all those together?  I sketched out my own time line for possible use ignoring those things that didn't fit my conception of how the game might go based on starting a bit earlier (1800) but wondered if anyone else had put any thought into moving the core dates also and why they might have done that...


Gracias,

Glenn

[Conquistador]

There's a link in Zorro themed blog to a site where someone attempted to merge the different sotrylines and incarnations into a chronology that sort of makes sense. It might be an interesting read.

http://www.pjfarmer.com/woldnewton/Zorro.htm

As for me, I just paint the miniatures (in black and white) based on the Disney series and I don't bother myself with the hard questions as it's not a historical game anyway. 

Okay, not arguing but how do you view the game if not historically based for figures? Fantasy?    Pre-Science Fiction?     Alternative historical?    

BTW, you did a fantastic job (I probably should check but I think the B/W miniatures/settings you mentioned where the superb ones in a LAF thread earlier) that really caught the thematic effect of the old TV shows when there was only B/W...

Gracias,

Glenn

[Plynkes]

I like to go to the original source for this kind of thing. I remember reading through The Curse of Capistrano and searching in vain for anything that would give me a handle on when it was supposed to be set.

You'd think just one of those guards might have said something along the lines of "Stop in the name of the King/Emperor/Republic!" to give us a bit of a pointer. But no.  


Having failed so dismally I would fall back on the idea of faithfully recreating whatever version or adaptation you like best, and being true to that, rather than trying to pin it to a particular historical moment in time. From that perspective it isn't really important what year it is, or whether it is an Emperor or President in Mexico City, or a King in Spain that is wielding ultimate power. All three are far away enough from the events in Los Angeles that they play no part and may as well be on the moon. If it looks and feels like Zorro, that's all that matters.

[white knight]

Um, I mentioned/quoted that web site in the OP.   

So you did. That'll teach me to reply in a hurry while at work. 

[white knight]

Okay, not arguing but how do you view the game if not historically based for figures? Fantasy?    Pre-Science Fiction?     Alternative historical?    

Well, I guess alternative history would be the closest.
Essentially though, I base my setting on the look and feel of the Disney show, disregarding historical inaccuracy's, and shopping for suitable figures that match the look from various ranges that roughly run from 1800 to 1830's. If it looks right, it is right.

I'm sorry,this is probably not much help.

BTW, you did a fantastic job (I probably should check but I think the B/W miniatures/settings you mentioned where the superb ones in a LAF thread earlier) that really caught the thematic effect of the old TV shows when there was only B/W...

Thanks! I still have plans to expand, but my GF demands that all hobbytime (of which there is little) is used foremost to paint her Super Dungeon Explorer figures. I do have my eye on the splendid Brigade Games resin buildings though that should get me a long way towards assembling a small town.

[Conquistador]

So you did. That'll teach me to reply in a hurry while at work. 

Yes, I have several tee-shirts (and one virtual scar) from doing that too!   

Gracias,

Glenn

[Conquistador]

I like to go to the original source for this kind of thing. I remember reading through The Curse of Capistrano and searching in vain for anything that would give me a handle on when it was supposed to be set.

You'd think just one of those guards might have said something along the lines of "Stop in the name of the King/Emperor/Republic!" to give us a bit of a pointer. But no.  


Having failed so dismally I would fall back on the idea of faithfully recreating whatever version or adaptation you like best, and being true to that, rather than trying to pin it to a particular historical moment in time. From that perspective it isn't really important what year it is, or whether it is an Emperor or President in Mexico City, or a King in Spain that is wielding ultimate power. All three are far away enough from the events in Los Angeles that they play no part and may as well be on the moon. If it looks and feels like Zorro, that's all that matters.

Good point, I grew up in SoCal (East Los Angeles then L. A. County near Orange County) and a little poking of lod people led to stories passed down from ancestors that could summed up/paraphrased  as, "What happened locally ("El Pueblo de la Reyna de los Angeles"  or "El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de los Angeles de Porciuncula",  depending on who you believe, in this case) was important, What happen in alta/Baja California was gossip worthy, anything from Ciudad de México was only grief worthy and to be avoided or ignored if possible, and as for Spain..."

Maybe it is time for me to dig up those decades old books about the settling of LA, do some web research, and write up my version of Zorro.

Gracias,

Glenn

[Conquistador]

Well, I guess alternative history would be the closest.
Essentially though, I base my setting on the look and feel of the Disney show, disregarding historical inaccuracy's, and shopping for suitable figures that match the look from various ranges that roughly run from 1800 to 1830's. If it looks right, it is right.

I'm sorry,this is probably not much help. <snip>

Actually it was very helpful.  Don't just think outside the box, find the box you like and use it.

Gracias,

Glenn

[former user]

Having failed so dismally I would fall back on the idea of faithfully recreating whatever version or adaptation you like best, and being true to that, rather than trying to pin it to a particular historical moment in time. From that perspective it isn't really important what year it is, or whether it is an Emperor or President in Mexico City, or a King in Spain that is wielding ultimate power. All three are far away enough from the events in Los Angeles that they play no part and may as well be on the moon. If it looks and feels like Zorro, that's all that matters.

I like this approach very much

however, since I haven't read the book, the wiki article describes the setting as mexican california 1823 - 1846
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_maldici%C3%B3n_de_Capistrano

and if I might add, my brief overview would make me guess:
since neither the independance war before 1821, nor the mexican american war with the battle of Los Angeles 1846 are mentioned, the settlement is described as a town, there is a church (La Iglesia de Nuestra Señora de Los Ángeles finished 1822), a garrison commanded by a captain, it could even be after 1835 when LA was made capital of the province - a presidio is mentioned in the first chapter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Los_Angeles

here is the open source original text

https://archive.org/details/markzorro