Why skirmish versus larger games?

[FifteensAway]

Just wondering why so much of the focus of old west gaming is street fight skirmish gaming?  Is it the early rules pointed that way?  Is it because Hollywood many so many movies about it?  Not so much the reality of the old west, ranges wars and Chisum (Hollywood version) style "wars" much more the real thing.  And the lawmen were vastly more competent than Hollywood portrays - it was lousy odds to be a bad guy in the old west.  So, again, why skirmishing over other types of old west games?  Really am curious for opinions of others.  Thanks for reading and replying.

[maxxon]

People want to play the movies, not the reality.

Some people like big battalions. Personally I like skirmish games because they are more personal and they allow me to do more with terrain. But then again I started out with RPGs.

[Lowtardog]

All of the above mate. Not sure how common range wars were to be honest but I would still call it a skirmish as it would be in the 10s rather than hundreds

I also think the lack of mounted and dismounted versions of cowboys on the market I can only think of Foundy and the Cowboys war range off top of my head.

I also think terrain, the building of a town gives you something a little different to fight over. For example Necromunda and Mordheim are essentially cowboy games in a different setting, its the buildings that are the challenge.

If I were (collected the Indians and cavalry then flooged them off) I would be tempted for go for indian wars or clashes along the border for larger games or Maximillian adventure, ALamo that sort of thing.

Over all thogh Hollywood is the thing that would be the main driver in wild west games

[Elbows]

I prefer skirmish games to large unit games in almost any genre.  I don't get anything from putting more models on the table.  Fewer models tends to bring out a good story and you can identify individuals more readily.  Big battalion games I'd just as soon play on a map.

I'd say the biggest I like to go is maybe a platoon or small company max. 

[Mason]

I prefer skirmish games to large unit games in almost any genre.  I don't get anything from putting more models on the table.  Fewer models tends to bring out a good story and you can identify individuals more readily......

^
This...and the fact that skirmish games means less models to paint so I do not get bored painting the same type of model.
Also means I can paint up several 'gangs' in the time it would take to paint one unit for larger games.

[Gutbukkit]

What everyone else has said really. I play skirmish games in most genres. It has a better story feel to it. Character progression of individuals in campaigns is always nice to add back story to a gang. I also hate painting large numbers of miniatures and I can paint up all gangs and posses required rather than just my army. That way I can easily rope others in to play, and hope that it inspires them to collect their own. But mainly for the Old West it is trying to get that Hollywood/Spaghetti Western feel to my games that I love so much.

[Heisler]

The issue is there really isn't a lot of opportunity to play larger scale games in the western setting. You have the Texas Revolution in 1835 and the Mexican-American War in 1846 for big actions but other than the Little Big Horn  there just aren't a lot of large scale actions involving the US Army and the American Indians. For the most part those actions just don't involve a lot of people and are more easily handled as skirmish actions rather than as big battle actions.

[NickNascati]

I think it is partially due to the fact that the Western genre is very much character driven.  Whether Historical, Hollywood, or Iconic, it is the characters that stay in our minds.  That being said, I would indeed enjoy doing a game with 10 - 20 figures per side, per player.

[northtroll]

I think what most of you have said pretty well sums it up.  There are many conflicts that get overlooked in western games like the Riel rebellion, the Modoc War, the Californios vs the Native tribes and so forth. Heck for that matter most early Californian history would make for interesting skirmish games.

[has.been]

For me there are two reasons:-
The gap between buying figures & playing is MUCH shorter and the people I game with no longer want big battles.

[abu iskander]

@ Fifteens - Were you thinking something like this? Could be very Sharpe Practice or maybe the large battle expansion from LoTOW. Could be a spectacular 1:1 largish game.

On April 5, 1892, 52 armed men rode a private, secret train north from Cheyenne. Just outside Casper, Wyo., they switched to horseback and continued north toward Buffalo, Wyo., the Johnson County seat. Their mission was to shoot or hang 70 men named on a list carried by Frank Canton, one of the leaders of this invading force.

The invaders (as they came to be known) included some of the most powerful cattlemen in Wyoming, their top employees and 23 hired guns. The invasion resulted from long‑standing disputes between these cattle barons, who owned herds numbering in the thousands, and small operators, most running just enough cattle to support their families. The event came to be called the Johnson County War. Longtime Wyoming historian T.A. Larson ranked it “the most notorious event in the history of Wyoming.”

Numerous court records contain valuable information on the invasion, as do other government documents, especially land files. Most significantly, after the invasion--sometimes as many as 40 years later--the cattlemen and their allies published writings containing admissions that suddenly shone a bright light on contested issues. From this voluminous data, clear facts emerge from which the truth about the invasion and its causes can be determined.

Johnson County newspapers date back to August of 1883, when no one in Johnson County conceived of future astonishing events, and those newspapers are full of candid appraisals of the community. A reading of the Johnson County newspapers quickly dispels the notion, stated in other Wyoming papers and others around the nation, that Buffalo was “the most lawless town in the country,” or a haven for “range pirates” who “mercilessly” stole big cattlemen’s livestock.

The cattle barons planned, organized and financed the invasion, declaring beforehand and afterwards that they had no choice but to take drastic action to protect their property. They said they were the victims of massive cattle stealing in Johnson County, and local authorities were doing nothing to protect their herds. They further declared that Buffalo was a rogue society in which rustlers controlled everything— politics, courts and juries. Those juries, the cattle barons said, refused to convict on cattle rustling charges no matter how strong the evidence.



The invaders of Johnson County, in custody at Ft. D.A. Russell in Cheyenne, spring 1892. None were ever brought to trial. Courtesy Jim Gatchell Memorial Museum.

Johnson County people, on the other hand, largely believed that the real reason for the invasion was the big cattlemen’s determination to drive competitors off the open range that the stockmen illegally monopolized -- to stop those who might legally take up public land under the Homestead and Desert Land acts.

- See more at: http://www.wyohistory.org/essays/johnson-county-war#sthash.VuC5Mm3C.dpuf

http://www.wyohistory.org/essays/johnson-county-war

[Elk101]

I enjoyed reading that article. I'd heard of this before but had no idea of the details. Unless there were several such instances? Thanks for sharing it.

[Cory]

The Johnson county war stands out, as does the Lincoln county war, in part for there size, in great part for the press they got. many of the land wars did not get so much coverage and are barely known to history.

[FifteensAway]

Yes, all good points.  And thanks for clearing up some fog in my brain - Chisum is based upon the Lincoln County war. 

However, I don't see much mention of things like raids on wagon trains - by indians or other sources (Comancheros for instance).  How about a posse out in the country who've cornered a gang in a box canyon (okay, more of a skirmish).  To my mind, there is so much more than just the shoot outs in towns that seems to dominate Old West gaming - when it isn't the 7th Cavalry.  Train robberies (seen from time to time), stage coach robberies, cattle rustling on the plains, rival railroad crews - a hundred or two per side - battling over a critical pass.  Maybe this goes on but I don't recollect hearing or seeing much of it.

Of course, since my collection - obscene in quantity compared to most (I may have as many figures as 100 other gamers added together, maybe even more!) - is in 15 mm, I don't have any problem with finding mounted figures (and matching dismounts in very many cases).

I realize that for a lot of you 15 mm figures aren't going to appeal because you like the individual character aspect that is better served in the larger scales.  But it does open wider vistas for games - both literally as well as figuratively.

And thanks for that bit about the Lincoln County war, hopefully it will inspire others to travel down my road.  I do think I'd be safe walking through Indian - pardon, Indigenous People - country.  They don't generally attack those who appear to be off their rocker! 

[abu iskander]

There's always this old set. A friend of mine recently gave me a copy.

http://www.miniatures.de/wargame-pony-wars.html

The Pony Wars game provides players with all the visual appeal, suspense and drama of a Hollywood movie. It’s a tough fight, offering plenty of opportunity for heroic last stands, from which some lucky officers of the 7th U.S. Cavalry will return as heros.

The complete convention game of Pony Wars is played with 240 US Cavalry figures, 80 dismounted troopers, horse holders, eight 12-pdrs and two Gatling guns with limbers and crews, 20 Indian Scouts, 20 Volunteer Scouts, 40 US Infantry figures, 2 gun crews and 10 infantry figures for the fort, the ’Dando’ figure, three wagon trains of three wagons each, five farm wagons, 70 dismounted and 20 mounted civilians, the gun-runner wagon, stagecoach, war wagon, character figures of the Lone Ranger and Tonto, and 30 Longhorn cattle. The Sioux nation is represented by 600 mounted and 100 dismounted braves, 50 assorted squaws and villagers, 2 model smoke signals, and 30 Buffalo (one white).