30 Years War Gallowglass help.

[Nachtbringer240]

I'm hoping to do a force of Scottish mercenaries under the command of Colonel William MacKay (if the book I'm using as a source is accurate) for the Calvinist/Protestant forces, and I want to include Gallowglass.

However, I'm slightly unsure about using Claymore Castings Gallowglass (link), purely because I'm unsure about what the Gallowglass looked like during the 30 Years War.

Anyone care to help me out?

[HerbyF]

The Gallowglass were Irish mercenaries. They would still be wearing chainmail shirts or jack, with or without helmets.

[commissarmoody]

The Gallowglass were Irish mercenaries. They would still be wearing chainmail shirts or jack, with or without helmets.

Yep just with updated helmets and maybe a pistol or two. 

[Nachtbringer240]

The Gallowglass were Irish mercenaries. They would still be wearing chainmail shirts or jack, with or without helmets.
Yep just with updated helmets and maybe a pistol or two.  Smiley

Okay, so maybe give them a morion or a burgonet? Gotcha.

[Hu Rhu]

Okay, so maybe give them a morion or a burgonet? Gotcha.

The Irish tended to have outdated equipment compared to the English, who themselves lagged behind European armies.  A mix of Morions and Burgonet would work but you could also add in the odd sallet or even a kettle helmet to mix things up.

[Nachtbringer240]

The Irish tended to have outdated equipment compared to the English, who themselves lagged behind European armies.  A mix of Morions and Burgonet would work but you could also add in the odd sallet or even a kettle helmet to mix things up.

Interesting. That's probably gonna mean more conversion work than I originally intended but still. Should be fun.

[Hu Rhu]

I converted some of the claymore castings for 15th century Gallowglass for a WOTR project that has been bubbling away for a couple of years now.  I used Perry WotR heads to give them a slight mix.  You could go the other way and perhaps use Warlord Games TYW and ECW heads.

[Nachtbringer240]

I converted some of the claymore castings for 15th century Gallowglass for a WOTR project that has been bubbling away for a couple of years now.  I used Perry WotR heads to give them a slight mix.  You could go the other way and perhaps use Warlord Games TYW and ECW heads.

That was intention. Although I might have a go using the Perry WotR heads I ever dabble in medieval wars.

[Franz_Josef]

30 Yrs War is a bit late for gallowglass -  they close out in late 16th century to just about the end of Elizabeth I's reign (first decade of 17th century).  Irish mercenaries in 30 Yrs War would look much more like Irish of the ECW period.

[Franz_Josef]

THIS is a good example of what Irish mercenaries look like in the 30 Yrs War period (17th century - gallowglass really close out the 16th)

http://eurekaminusa.com/collections/english-civil-war-montrose-irish-28mm

[Emir of Askaristan]

I agree with Franz, the TYW is too late for your classic galloglass. The Irish and Scots "red shanks" in the famous Stettin pictures were soon re equipped with the correct equipment and probably quickly re clothed too. You might want to add the odd claymore, basket jilted broadsword or targe to some red haired, plaid wearing tyw pike and shot to represent a unit which had been in country for a while, or use some of the Irish ECW figs instead.

[Nachtbringer240]

THIS is a good example of what Irish mercenaries look like in the 30 Yrs War period (17th century - gallowglass really close out the 16th)

http://eurekaminusa.com/collections/english-civil-war-montrose-irish-28mm

Ah. So maybe relying on Wikipedia: not the best idea.

I agree with Franz, the TYW is too late for your classic galloglass. The Irish and Scots "red shanks" in the famous Stettin pictures were soon re equipped with the correct equipment and probably quickly re clothed too. You might want to add the odd claymore, basket jilted broadsword or targe to some red haired, plaid wearing tyw pike and shot to represent a unit which had been in country for a while, or use some of the Irish ECW figs instead.

So using the Montrose Irish models for Irish mercenaries. Although, I'm planning on doing one of the Scots brigades under Gustavus Adolphus, so that would mean a substantial lack of Irishmen. But it's still something to think about.

[Emir of Askaristan]

I think there would be little to distinguish highland Scots and Irish other than the banners of their regiments to be honest. The language spoken by both would have been identical or as near as, clothing and custom would likewise have been similar, hence their ability to be put together in the same unit. Once the clothing they'd travelled in had worn out or uniform was issued to them I doubt you could tell them apart from Swedes or Germans except in small differences in personal kit - bonnets, dirks and pipes, perhaps the odd plaid piece of cloth. But in terms of their battlefield kit, it wouldn't be apparent at all. This was definately true for their officers, look at the Earl of Leven compared with Horn, etc.

However we're Wargamers, we like to see differences between troops. 

[Nachtbringer240]

I think there would be little to distinguish highland Scots and Irish other than the banners of their regiments to be honest. The language spoken by both would have been identical or as near as, clothing and custom would likewise have been similar, hence their ability to be put together in the same unit. Once the clothing they'd travelled in had worn out or uniform was issued to them I doubt you could tell them apart from Swedes or Germans except in small differences in personal kit - bonnets, dirks and pipes, perhaps the odd plaid piece of cloth. But in terms of their battlefield kit, it wouldn't be apparent at all. This was definately true for their officers, look at the Earl of Leven compared with Horn, etc.

However we're Wargamers, we like to see differences between troops.  Laugh

I was just trying to think of the best way to show the difference between Scots and Irish without having to resort to banners or colours. I was just thinking Gallowglass (and I'm sure I've seen them referred to as Scottish rather than Irish) since they would have a very Gaelic flavour to them.

Plus, I want to do something on my list of models to make before I join the army.

[Arthur]

I'd say it all depends on how accurate you want to be. Gallowglass in chainmail armed with two-handed broadsword are definitely out and would have been of little use in the pitched battles of the TYW anyway.  

The sad historical reality is the various British mercenary regiments in Danish or Swedish service were almost certainly indistinguishable from their German colleagues. Scottish and Irish mercenaries were ferried to Germany and landed there wearing their native clothes, but they were provided with suits of clothing by their colonel-proprietor once their joined their unit. It sometimes took a few weeks to do so but they ultimately ended up wearing the same doublet/cassock and breeches as the rest of the infantry. They were also issued with hats, though it is quite conceivable that some of the men clung to their native bonnets, which would have been the only item of native clothing to survive the process of induction into a regular regiment. I have yet to see evidence that Scots retained their plaids  which doubled as foul weather clothing and bedding - after landing in Germany.

The famous Stettin print depicts highlanders as they would have appeared just after they got off the boat, not as they looked like in the battlefield - though of course they would be just as ragged as the rest of the army after a few months' campaigning.