Indian Raiding Parties for S&S and FoL?

[NickNascati]

With the recent request for information on characters, I realized that neither of these sets of rules have stats for Indians.  Be they Apaches or Commanches, they certainly have a place in our Western games.

[Legionaire22]

Agreed! I have dozens of Indians just waiting for Elbows to come out with cards and rules for.

[Elbows]

Hahaha, well, yes there is an Indian Wars expansion that is next in line for Shoot N' Skedaddle.  This one will be planned out and playtested and have rules fully written before released though.  It's easily 6 months+ away for me.  I got in over my head with rules I thought were done, so I sold cards...then I ended up re-writing about 80% of the rulebook and it all went back and forth for too long.

While the original rulebook is essentially complete, I'll be much slower for expansions.   

But yes, Indians Wars will feature two new factions: Indians, and US Cavalry (each with their own character/weapon/special decks).  They've been on the planning sheets for quite some time.  In fact, some of the eagle eyed viewers may have noticed these:



Back from about 9 months ago while testing the new printing on cards.  Ignore the stats etc, but you'll see a brown and black character cards.  So...eventually Nick, eventually. 

[axabrax]

I haven't read either of these rules, but my feeling is that Indian wars should be substantially different from showdown style gunslinging games, at least in terms of scenarios and campaign background. Indians shouldn't just be "another faction." I thought Legends of the West did a pretty decent job with handling this and going both ways. In my opinion, muskets and tomahawks would be the best rules basis for this kind of game as it is specifically designed for raid style warfare.

[Elbows]

I agree if you want to play real Indian Wars I doubt any of the current Old West rule sets are suitable.  SnS indians will represent very late, small indian raiding parties, but will be tied into the small style skirmish system.  It'll be entertaining but a far cry from the real wars on the plains etc.  I used to have the LOTOW books, but don't remember too much about their Indian Wars.  I know they were more "battles" than the normal LOTOW shootouts etc.

[NickNascati]

I think that S&S would be able to handle raiding parties of maybe a dozen figures to represent Apaches or Commanches with no problem. I just need Black Scorpion to release some!!

[Elbows]

They have a couple, but they're all adapted natives.  I think the indians will be fun to play, but I imagine they'll give history buffs a heart attack. 

[Lowtardog]

I agree if you want to play real Indian Wars I doubt any of the current Old West rule sets are suitable.  SnS indians will represent very late, small indian raiding parties, but will be tied into the small style skirmish system.  It'll be entertaining but a far cry from the real wars on the plains etc.  I used to have the LOTOW books, but don't remember too much about their Indian Wars.  I know they were more "battles" than the normal LOTOW shootouts etc.

Elbows it correct the LOTOW is more relating to plains war with figihting cavalry/infantry and if memory serves me Mexicans. It covers main tribes such as Souix, Cheyanne and lesser tribes e.g. Nex Pierce , Comanches and Apache etc

If you were going down intertribal raids I would tend to take a look at A Good Day to Die/War on the Plains which specifically deals with various tribes fighting each other etc.

These are worth a look too, based on the Sword and the Flame, for me better than publish rules Bugles and boots and saddles
http://www.angelfire.com/games3/jacksongamer/tomahawk.htm

[axabrax]

I think you can still use the more Hollywood rule sets for Indian wars games, you just need to create some good scenarios and a campaign background and maybe change the rules a little bit for Indian morale and objectives. Mechanics wise there's no reason you can't use any rule set.  A really good set of Indian wars rules is a bit of a holy Grail for me, and I haven't seen it yet. The closest I've seen is Yellow Ribbon, which isn't really a skirmish set it is a bit dated. As I say I think Muskets and Tomahawks is the most promising but it would need a full-blown supplement geared towards the Indian wars. Maybe something I will play around with a bit…

[BaronVonJ]

Hey Nick,
FfoL has the Hangman Hollow scenario that could easily be turned into a Indian attack on a settlers ranch.
-J

[Conquistador]

Being an old fan of "Good Day to Die" rules and several supplements there of I think you need to have Indians if the game moves out of towns (and even in town they add flavor/wrinkles to any western game.)  GD2D really had an interesting take on Apaches being different from Comanche in game play.  And the Cherokee player being able/required to send a single figure (a "Killer" but still a  single figure/character) in a game (earlier period - Eastern Woodlands) was certainly interesting to play.

Gracias,

Glenn