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Author Topic: 10 Myths About WW1 Debunked  (Read 19685 times)

Offline Cubs

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10 Myths About WW1 Debunked
« on: January 20, 2014, 10:36:50 AM »
It's obviously 'chicken in a basket' style learning, very much processed for the lay person, but since that largely describes me I found it interesting. A couple I already knew, but most I didn't.

The bit at the end resonates with me because my brother is adamant that he really enjoyed his service in the Iraq War (Afghanistan not so much). He was quite open about the fact that the adrenaline rush was addictive and everything felt more 'real' and alive. He said a few of the lads had a hard time, but most enjoyed it. "After all," he told me, "if you don't like fighting, you don't become a soldier." Of course, he wasn't conscripted ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25776836

Lions and donkeys: 10 big myths about World War One debunked

Much of what we think we know about the 1914-18 conflict is wrong, writes historian Dan Snow.

No war in history attracts more controversy and myth than World War One.

For the soldiers who fought it was in some ways better than previous conflicts, and in some ways worse.

By setting it apart as uniquely awful we are blinding ourselves to the reality of not just WW1 but war in general. We are also in danger of belittling the experience of soldiers and civilians caught up in countless other appalling conflicts throughout history and the present day.


1. It was the bloodiest war in history to that point
 
Fifty years before WW1 broke out, southern China was torn apart by an even bloodier conflict. Conservative estimates of the dead in the 14-year Taiping rebellion start at between 20 and 30 million. Around 17 million soldiers and civilians were killed during WW1.

Although more Britons died in WW1 than any other conflict, the bloodiest war in our history relative to population size is the Civil War which raged in the mid-17th Century. It saw a far higher proportion of the population of the British Isles killed than the less than 2% who died in WW1. By contrast around 4% of the population of England and Wales, and considerably more than that in Scotland and Ireland, are thought to have been killed in the Civil War.


2. Most soldiers died

In the UK around six million men were mobilised, and of those just over 700,000 were killed. That's around 11.5%.

In fact, as a British soldier you were more likely to die during the Crimean War (1853-56) than in WW1.


3. Men lived in the trenches for years on end

Front-line trenches could be a terribly hostile place to live. Often wet, cold and exposed to the enemy, units would quickly lose their morale if they spent too much time in them.

As a result, the British army rotated men in and out continuously. Between battles, a unit spent perhaps 10 days a month in the trench system, and of those, rarely more than three days right up on the front line. It was not unusual to be out of the line for a month.

During moments of crisis, such as big offensives, the British could occasionally spend up to seven days on the front line but were far more often rotated out after just a day or two.


4. The upper class got off lightly

Although the great majority of casualties in WW1 were from the working class, the social and political elite was hit disproportionately hard by WW1. Their sons provided the junior officers whose job it was to lead the way over the top and expose themselves to the greatest danger as an example to their men.

Some 12% of the British army's ordinary soldiers were killed during the war, compared with 17% of its officers. Eton alone lost more than 1,000 former pupils - 20% of those who served. UK wartime Prime Minister Herbert Asquith lost a son, while future Prime Minister Andrew Bonar Law lost two. Anthony Eden lost two brothers, another brother of his was terribly wounded and an uncle was captured.


5. 'Lions led by donkeys'  

This saying was supposed to have come from senior German commanders describing brave British soldiers led by incompetent old toffs from their chateaux. In fact it was made up by historian Alan Clark.

During the war more than 200 generals were killed, wounded or captured. Most visited the front lines every day. In battle they were considerably closer to the action than generals are today.

Naturally, some generals were not up to the job, but others were brilliant, such as Arthur Currie, a middle-class Canadian failed insurance broker and property developer.

Rarely in history have commanders had to adapt to a more radically different technological environment.

British commanders had been trained to fight small colonial wars, now they were thrust into a massive industrial struggle unlike anything the British army had ever seen.

Despite this, within three years the British had effectively invented a method of warfare still recognisable today. By the summer of 1918 the British army was probably at its best ever and it inflicted crushing defeats on the Germans.


6. Gallipoli was fought by Australians and New Zealanders  

Far more British soldiers fought on the Gallipoli peninsula than Australians and New Zealanders put together.

The UK lost four or five times as many men in the brutal campaign as her imperial Anzac contingents. The French also lost more men than the Australians.

The Aussies and Kiwis commemorate Gallipoli ardently, and understandably so, as their casualties do represent terrible losses both as a proportion of their forces committed and of their small populations.


7. Tactics on the Western Front remained unchanged despite repeated failure

Never have tactics and technology changed so radically in four years of fighting. It was a time of extraordinary innovation. In 1914 generals on horseback galloped across battlefields as men in cloth caps charged the enemy without the necessary covering fire. Both sides were overwhelmingly armed with rifles. Four years later, steel-helmeted combat teams dashed forward protected by a curtain of artillery shells.

They were now armed with flame throwers, portable machine-guns and grenades fired from rifles. Above, planes, that in 1914 would have appeared unimaginably sophisticated, duelled in the skies, some carrying experimental wireless radio sets, reporting real-time reconnaissance.

Huge artillery pieces fired with pinpoint accuracy - using only aerial photos and maths they could score a hit on the first shot. Tanks had gone from the drawing board to the battlefield in just two years, also changing war forever.


8.No-one won

Swathes of Europe lay wasted, millions were dead or wounded. Survivors lived on with severe mental trauma. The UK was broke. It is odd to talk about winning.

However, in a narrow military sense, the UK and her allies convincingly won. Germany's battleships had been bottled up by the Royal Navy until their crews mutinied rather than make a suicidal attack against the British fleet.

Germany's army collapsed as a series of mighty allied blows scythed through supposedly impregnable defences.

By late September 1918 the German emperor and his military mastermind Erich Ludendorff admitted that there was no hope and Germany must beg for peace. The 11 November Armistice was essentially a German surrender.

Unlike Hitler in 1945, the German government did not insist on a hopeless, pointless struggle until the allies were in Berlin - a decision that saved countless lives, but was seized upon later to claim Germany never really lost.


9. The Versailles Treaty was extremely harsh

The treaty of Versailles confiscated 10% of Germany's territory but left it the largest, richest nation in central Europe.

It was largely unoccupied and financial reparations were linked to its ability to pay, which mostly went unenforced anyway.

The treaty was notably less harsh than treaties that ended the 1870-71 Franco-Prussian War and World War Two. The German victors in the former annexed large chunks of two rich French provinces, part of France for around 300 years, and home to most of French iron ore production, as well as presenting France with a massive bill for immediate payment.
 
After WW2 Germany was occupied, split up, her factory machinery smashed or stolen and millions of prisoners forced to stay with their captors and work as slave labourers. Germany lost all the territory it had gained after WW1 and another giant slice on top of that.

Versailles was not harsh but was portrayed as such by Hitler who sought to create a tidal wave of anti-Versailles sentiment on which he could then ride into power.


10. Everyone hated it

Like any war, it all comes down to luck. You may witness unimaginable horrors that leave you mentally and physically incapacitated for life, or you might get away without a scrape. It could be the best of times, or the worst of times.

Many soldiers enjoyed WW1. If they were lucky they would avoid a big offensive, and much of the time, conditions might be better than at home.
 
For the British there was meat every day - a rare luxury back home - cigarettes, tea and rum, part of a daily diet of over 4,000 calories.

Absentee rates due to sickness, an important barometer of a unit's morale were, remarkably, hardly above peacetime rates. Many young men enjoyed the guaranteed pay, the intense comradeship, the responsibility and a much greater sexual freedom than in peacetime Britain.

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Offline Onebigriver

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Re: 10 Myths About WW1 Debunked
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2014, 11:03:19 AM »
Interesting stuff there, I was familiar with some.

Number 9, though, perhaps it wasn't as harsh as Hitler portrayed it, but subsequent British Govts did think it was harsh and that contributed to the failure to enforce it. IIRC the US refused to ratify Versailles.
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Offline Hammers

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Re: 10 Myths About WW1 Debunked
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2014, 11:36:49 AM »
Interesting. So war is essentially enjoyable then? ;-)

Offline Plynkes

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Re: 10 Myths About WW1 Debunked
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2014, 12:09:52 PM »
I don't think I ever subscribed to many of those myths, except possibly the last one. But these kind of articles are still part of a trend I'm not too keen on.

I think each age's attitude to the Great War tells you more about that age than the war itself, and these things go in cycles. Nowadays, for whatever reason (I think I know what the reason is, but to discuss that would mean talking politics so I won't) the wheel has turned again and it is the fashion to have a more positive outlook: To pretend the Great War was not so bad as everyone said, in fact it was rather splendid, and label those who still think it was a terrible catastrophe as "revisionists."

Well, the generation of Britons that actually fought in it seemed determined to do just about anything rather than face another one when the time came in the 1930s. They can't have enjoyed it that much. My own anecdotal connection with the war is memories of the large gang of elderly aunts in the 1970s, not a husband between them. As a small child I couldn't understand why they had never married. And the wreck of a man who was my Great Grandfather, for whom the war never really ended. Don't think they had much fun, either.


I can still think of commanders who fully deserve to be considered Donkeys leading lions. Falkenhayn’s plan to "bleed France white" at Verdun springs to mind. You know, the one that bled Germany white. He seemed to think that the French would suffer massive attrition and somehow the Germans wouldn't. Because you know, they were Germans and they were only fighting mere Frenchmen.


But Dan Snow isn't going to dwell on anything bad, because he likes making war fun for the viewers. I always call those shows he does "Dan Snow plays Army."
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Offline Cubs

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Re: 10 Myths About WW1 Debunked
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2014, 12:23:25 PM »
I saw it more as a leveller article, to dispel popular myths and get a little perspective about WW1 compared to other wars. You've got to use sound judgement to stop the needle before it swings too far in the opposite direction.

And yes, a lot of soldiers I've talked to really do enjoy war. I'm guessing these aren't the ones with crippling injuries, horrible psychological trauma etc.. But for the majority, it's not like they say war's a good thing, but rather the adrenaline is a hell of a buzz and something that can be addictive; and that's aside from the comradeship they find with their mates. Unless you've shared your life with someone in those circumstances I guess it's tough to understand.


Offline joroas

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Re: 10 Myths About WW1 Debunked
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2014, 12:33:58 PM »
I think the article was a barbed attack on Mr Gove:

Quote
Michael Gove Attacked For 'Blackadder' Comments On 'Left-Wing' Whitewash Of WW1 History

Historians have hit back at Michael Gove's assertions that "left-wing" programmes like Blackadder have whitewashed Germany of blame for World War One, and eradicated national pride in the Great War.

And many on social media have attempted to "fact-check" Gove's interpretation in the Daily Mail on Friday, backing Culture Secretary Maria Miller's plans to ensure the centenary commemorations lack overt jingoism.

In an extraordinary denunciation, Gove said "left wing academics", and series like the satirical Blackadder, sought to damage patriotism and portray the war as a shambolic game played by a bumbling elite.

The Education Secretary wrote: "Our understanding of the war has been overlaid by misunderstandings, and misrepresentations which reflect an, at best, ambiguous attitude to this country and, at worst, an unhappy compulsion on the part of some to denigrate virtues such as patriotism, honour and courage.

"The conflict has, for many, been seen through the fictional prism of dramas such as Oh! What a Lovely War, The Monocled Mutineer and Blackadder, as a misbegotten shambles – a series of catastrophic mistakes perpetrated by an out-of-touch elite.

"Even to this day there are Left-wing academics all too happy to feed those myths."

The conflict was "plainly a just war" aimed at stopping "the ruthless social Darwinism of the German elites, the pitiless approach they took to occupation, their aggressively expansionist war aims and their scorn for the international order".

And it was seen that way by the soldiers who fought, Gove added.

He said Professor Sir Richard Evans, the eminent Cambridge historian, had "attacked the very idea of honouring their sacrifice as an exercise in ‘narrow tub-thumping jingoism’".

On Saturday, Sir Richard said Gove's attack was "ignorant".

“How can you possibly claim that Britain was fighting for democracy and liberal values when the main ally was Tsarist Russia?

"That was a despotism that put Germany in the shade and sponsored pogroms in 1903-6," he told the Independent.

Many on social media also disputed Gove's take on "liberal" Britain fighting an evil enemy.
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Offline Maichus

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Re: 10 Myths About WW1 Debunked
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2014, 12:59:58 PM »
Intersting stuff, although some are very doubtable, especially number 9...  :-X

Just to put things into perspective, the last part of the reparations (interest) by Germany inforced by the Treaty of Versailles were paid in 2010!  (Notable by a completely different nation, or would for example let's say the USA today pay any outstanding debts owed by the Confederate States?)Not to mention that the vast majority of the federal German gold reserves are still stored in New York, London and Paris and the responsible banks refuse to give an accurate statement on the amount they have in stock and which numbers the gold bars have, etc.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 01:12:14 PM by Maichus »

Offline Hammers

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Re: 10 Myths About WW1 Debunked
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2014, 01:14:56 PM »
I don't think I ever subscribed to many of those myths, except possibly the last one. But these kind of articles are still part of a trend I'm not too keen on.

I think each age's attitude to the Great War tells you more about that age than the war itself, and these things go in cycles. Nowadays, for whatever reason (I think I know what the reason is, but to discuss that would mean talking politics so I won't) the wheel has turned again and it is the fashion to have a more positive outlook: To pretend the Great War was not so bad as everyone said, in fact it was rather splendid, and label those who still think it was a terrible catastrophe as "revisionists."

Well, the generation of Britons that actually fought in it seemed determined to do just about anything rather than face another one when the time came in the 1930s. They can't have enjoyed it that much. My own anecdotal connection with the war is memories of the large gang of elderly aunts in the 1970s, not a husband between them. As a small child I couldn't understand why they had never married. And the wreck of a man who was my Great Grandfather, for whom the war never really ended. Don't think they had much fun, either.


I can still think of commanders who fully deserve to be considered Donkeys leading lions. Falkenhayn’s plan to "bleed France white" at Verdun springs to mind. You know, the one that bled Germany white. He seemed to think that the French would suffer massive attrition and somehow the Germans wouldn't. Because you know, they were Germans and they were only fighting mere Frenchmen.


But Dan Snow isn't going to dwell on anything bad, because he likes making war fun for the viewers. I always call those shows he does "Dan Snow plays Army."


I agree with most what you are saying but myths work in both directions don't they. It is all a matter of who spins the yarn. Some of what he is claiming in that article is based on statistic, some of the kind of fact which is based on what is sometimes called "qualitative studies".  The latter is merely a perspective on opinion, the former is actually based on statistics which is there for anyone to check. The question "how many dies in proportion to the population" is relatively straightforward but still there are many people who believe something contrary to that.

Offline Hammers

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Re: 10 Myths About WW1 Debunked
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2014, 01:17:52 PM »
And yes, a lot of soldiers I've talked to really do enjoy war.

It is certainly my experience to that some soldiers enjoy some aspects of war.

Offline Plynkes

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Re: 10 Myths About WW1 Debunked
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2014, 01:20:01 PM »
And yes, a lot of soldiers I've talked to really do enjoy war. I'm guessing these aren't the ones with crippling injuries, horrible psychological trauma etc.. But for the majority, it's not like they say war's a good thing, but rather the adrenaline is a hell of a buzz and something that can be addictive; and that's aside from the comradeship they find with their mates. Unless you've shared your life with someone in those circumstances I guess it's tough to understand.

Yes, it has been documented in many wars that many people react this way. But that isn't everyone, and which type of reaction you choose to emphasize reflects your own bias and agenda.

The French decided they could not risk any more major offensives after the 1917 mutinies. Well-led men who are enjoying themselves don't tend to mutiny. That is more the realm of men who have been pushed beyond their limits and cannot take another step. The Russians overthrew their government to get out of the war. Seems to be that the Right Wingers want to whitewash the war just as much as the liberals, and have us all go back to chanting Dulce et Decorum est... If they want us to believe they don't have an agenda of their own in this trend of "setting the record straight" well, I'm sorry but I just don't believe them. This is as much about modern day politics as it is about history.

Well sod that. I'd rather stay rational and sit in the middle. But if they are going to try and force me to take sides by playing politics with it then I'm with Wilfred Owen. He was there. Dan Snow wasn't.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 01:24:25 PM by Plynkes »

Offline Hammers

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Re: 10 Myths About WW1 Debunked
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2014, 01:34:20 PM »
There is a quite famous Canadian experimental psychologist, Steven Pinker, who has written a very interesting book called " The Better Angels of Our Nature" which uses *massive* statistical research which shows that there has been a steady decline in war, rape, animal cruelty and general violence in human society. The curve is sloping down even in the times of the 20th century wars.

If Pinker has any agenda it is not towards the left, but rather against the right wing Christian who claim that the signs show that we live in the end of times (a claim as old as the human history).

Offline Cubs

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Re: 10 Myths About WW1 Debunked
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2014, 03:37:31 PM »
Very true. Attitudes today are very different from 100 or even 50 years ago regarding war and such. I wonder if it really is an evolution or just a social cycle?

Does it ring true across the globe or just in Western civilisations?

All good thinkings.

Offline FramFramson

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Re: 10 Myths About WW1 Debunked
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2014, 12:29:29 AM »
Very true. Attitudes today are very different from 100 or even 50 years ago regarding war and such. I wonder if it really is an evolution or just a social cycle?

Does it ring true across the globe or just in Western civilisations?

All good thinkings.

The darker view on that data is that we're still as prone to violence as ever, only we save it up for big bursts, rather than the plain endemic violence of old. I don't know if I agree with that, but it's sobering to consider the possibility.

Another school of similarly pessimistic though holds that as the species has gained the ability to wage war on an ever-increasing scale, our cycles really major violence have synched up globally, whereas normally they would have been smaller and more localized. In this model, the living veterans of the former instance serve to temper desires for future war and conflict. Once those memories die, the appreciation for what war costs fades. The classic problem of lest we forget.

Under that theory, the World Wars could not have taken place until all the veterans of the Napoleonic and Revolutionary Wars had died off, which in part explains why the US was reluctuant to join WWI, as the memories of the Civil War were still alive and with them.

Going further back, the case gets a little less clear but generally I see the Seven Years War (probably the earliest major war between European powers with a global playing field, even if it wasn't a truly global war) lumped in with the Revolutionary wars, or compared to the Franco-Prussian war, in the sense that it was a major conflict that laid the grounds for a much bigger show a generation later. Prior to those, the major devastating conflict was the Thirty Years War and some arguments try to tack on late medival conflicts.

I'm not sure I agree with that school, and it's not too difficult poke holes in it, but there is something to the idea that wars become easier once the living voices that remind us of the last go-around are all dead. Living through sort of thing seems to change a person's priorities (in the aggregate).

=====

Now as far as that "list of facts" goes, I'm with Plynkes, in that I'll take a documented veteran's word over some modern commentator.

WWI saw veterans decry the very idea of war like nothing ever before and maybe even since. Books like "War on War" (not for those with a weak stomach), endless tracts or poems on death, and the bitter, cynical comments from men who'd heard sings like "Over There" or "Oh, What a Lovely War" one too many times do not seem like the product of men who were generally happy to be there. Perhaps there were wars or conflicts with higher casualty rates or body counts, but WWI does seem like the grimmest bloody conflict ever fought.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 12:31:02 AM by FramFramson »


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Offline Franz_Josef

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Re: 10 Myths About WW1 Debunked
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2014, 05:30:12 AM »
Your 10 Myths Debunked is a bit Anglocentric.  Compare the British experience with that of the French at Verdun who, unlike the British, didn't get leave before 1917 and could stay on the line for weeks - they didn't mutiny because their croissants were cold!  It took that, and Petain assuming command, for the stupidity to stop (and that's by 1917).  And the experience of the Italians was even worse (and look at the Austro-Hungarian forces surrounded and destroyed at Prezmysl).  And your casualty rates are for the Britiish Army overall - which includes a lot of rear echelon/logistics forces; what is the rate for combat units?       

Offline Plynkes

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Re: 10 Myths About WW1 Debunked
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2014, 08:36:03 AM »
Your 10 Myths Debunked is a bit Anglocentric.      

This is true, but it is a British journalist writing for a British audience, and it is the commonly-held attitudes of the British about the war that are being addressed. So it is somewhat understandable.

 

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