rules for post WW2

[aliensurfer]

Hi, I've got Cold War commander, FoF, Fubar etc, but I am after something bigger than skirmish, but nice and quick to play, EASY to learn and that can work at multiple scales - although 20mm is what I am intending to use. Before anyone asks if I mean fireteam/platoon/squad/battalion level, I must confess to not knowing which is which nor the sizes etc (yup I am thick). I'd like to be able to use a fair amount of vehicles on either side for bigger games, down to small scale actions. I dont need overly detailed or overly complex - IE an Ak47 is the same as an M416 in game turns, maybe more detail / differences for different tanks, although happy to go with an MBT is an MBT etc. at 20mm i'll most likely aim for a 1:1 of what things represent. Ability to use artillery (off table too), air strikes, choppers etc would be handy, but again, in a simple way. Think of it as I am requiring 'How to wargame moderns for dummies'    thanks, scott.

[CptJake]

I think Cold War Commander does most of what you want.   Is there a reason you don't like it?

[aliensurfer]

I think Cold War Commander does most of what you want.   Is there a reason you don't like it?

bloody mindedness on my part I guess, I have all three of the commander books, they are pretty good, I've just not managed to read through them fully, not sure why, but these days if a ruleset goes over a couple of pages I seem to subconsciously give up on it, stop reading, look at the pretty pictures and move on to the next shiny thing to catch my attention 
also, I'm thick 

[Conquistador]

Hi, I've got Cold War commander, FoF, Fubar etc, but I am after something bigger than skirmish, but nice and quick to play, EASY to learn and that can work at multiple scales - although 20mm is what I am intending to use. Before anyone asks if I mean fireteam/platoon/squad/battalion level, I must confess to not knowing which is which nor the sizes etc (yup I am thick). I'd like to be able to use a fair amount of vehicles on either side for bigger games, down to small scale actions. I dont need overly detailed or overly complex - IE an Ak47 is the same as an M416 in game turns, maybe more detail / differences for different tanks, although happy to go with an MBT is an MBT etc. at 20mm i'll most likely aim for a 1:1 of what things represent. Ability to use artillery (off table too), air strikes, choppers etc would be handy, but again, in a simple way. Think of it as I am requiring 'How to wargame moderns for dummies'    thanks, scott.

Well, when I made a request like that I was told, "Board Games."  Obviously they meant non-SPI type ones but let me see if I understand your wants.

You want a game that can be scaled from bases representing fire teams to bases representing Battalions using the same bases? 

Or do you want a game where you play the role of Battalion/Company Commander moving (in each case respectively) Companies and Platoons/Platoons, Weapons Teams, and Squads?

Generic sidearms/long arms wouldn't be suspect but most modern games do differentiate between vehicles a lot.  And a AMX-10 Rc will be used/play different than an AMX-56 Leclerc or Abrams M1A2.  Are you looking for a "recon vehicle"/"Light AFV"/"MBT" level of differentiation in vehicles?

Actual on board Artillery might be uncommon but do you want that to be reflected as a possibility in the rules?

Gracias,

Glenn

[aliensurfer]

Glenn, the terms fireteam ,platoon etc really do not mean anything to me. I guess I want something scalable - ie can do a skirmish to a pretty big conflict. Something easy to learn and play without being too abstract or too complex. I think I may have to go back and re-read Cold War Commander, and then perhaps look for a skirmish game. I've also got AK47 which will do some of the games I want to do. Basically I want to be able to use whatever toys I want, put them on the table, not have to worry about orders of battle or TOE or whatever that means, not to worry about points and just play. Fubar kind of does this, but I'd like a bit more detail than that. Regards the vehicles, I don't mind whether it is just an MBT is an MBT, or that they are differentiated between - but I do not want something that makes algebra look fun just trying to work out a shot.

[v_lazy_dragon]

You could try 'Skank' - http://www.skankgame.com/
The rules are very much a case of what you see is what you get. A bloke with a rifle counts as a bloke with a rifle. an elite bloke with a rifle is slightly better. A tank counts as a tank, which is different to an APC, but not another tank (albiet with varying weapons). It has various heavy weapons (Machine gun, rocket launcher ,etc) but doesn't sweat the details too much. No orbats or squad compositions, other than what you have in your collection. Fairly rough and ready morale rules.
The rules are very 'lite', play quickly and easily and are easy to add (sadly write your own) stuff to if you want off table fire support etc. In terms of the number of figures on a side, I've done games with 5 a side all the way up to about 100 a side + vehicles without any real trouble. Not realistic, but definitely fun...

[Conquistador]

Fire team - usually 3 to 5 soldiers.

Squad usually 6 to 9 men (WW2 more sometimes.)

Platoons are usually built of squads plus weapon teams.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platoon

Companies are usually built of Platoons plus specialists.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_%28military_unit%29

Battalions are usually built of Companies plus specialists.

from http://usmilitary.about.com/od/army/l/blchancommand.htm

The basic building block of all Army organizations is the individual soldier. A small group of soldiers organized to maneuver and fire is called a squad. As elements of the Army's organizational structure become larger units, they contain more and more subordinate elements from combat arms, combat support and combat service support units.

A company is typically the smallest Army element to be given a designation and affiliation with higher headquarters at battalion and brigade level. This alphanumeric and branch designation causes an "element" to become a "unit."

Squad - 9 to 10 soldiers. Typically commanded by a sergeant or staff sergeant, a squad or section is the smallest element in the Army structure, and its size is dependent on its function.

Platoon - 16 to 44 soldiers. A platoon is led by a lieutenant with an NCO as second in command, and consists of two to four squads or sections.

Company - 62 to 190 soldiers. Three to five platoons form a company, which is commanded by a captain with a first sergeant as the commander's principle NCO assistant. An artillery unit of equivalent size is called a battery, and a comparable armored or air cavalry unit is called a troop.

Battalion - 300 to 1,000 soldiers. Four to six companies make up a battalion, which is normally commanded by a lieutenant colonel with a command sergeant major as principle NCO assistant. A battalion is capable of independent operations of limited duration and scope. An armored or air cavalry unit of equivalent size is called a squadron.

Brigade - 3,000 to 5,000 solders. A brigade headquarters commands the tactical operation of two to five organic or attached combat battalions. Normally commanded by a colonel with a command sergeant major as senior NCO, brigades are employed on independent or semi-independent operations. Armored cavalry, ranger and special forces units this size are categorized as regiments or groups.

Division - 10,000 to 15,000 soldiers. Usually consisting of three brigade-sized elements and commanded by a major general, divisions are numbered and assigned missions based on their structures. The division performs major tactical operations for the corps and can conduct sustained battles and engagements.

Corps - 20,000 to 45,000 soldiers. Two to five divisions constitute a corps, which is typically commanded by a lieutenant general. As the deployable level of command required to synchronize and sustain combat operations, the corps provides the framework for multi-national operations.

Army - 50,000 + soliders. Typically commanded by a lieutenant general or higher, an army combines two or more corps. A theater army is the ranking Army component in a unified command, and it has operational and support responsibilities that are assigned by the theater commander in chief. The commander in chief and theater army commander may order formation of a field army to direct operations of assigned corps and divisions. An army group plans and directs campaigns in a theater, and is composed of two or more field armies under a designated commander. Army groups have not been employed by the Army since World War II.

Above Information Derived from DA Pamphlet 10-1

There is no set size (number of troops) assigned to any specific element. The size of an element of command depends primarily upon the type of unit and mission. For example, an aviation company would have a different number of troops assigned than an infantry company because it has a different mission, different equipment, and therefore different requirements.

Note: The usual structure is battalion -> brigade -> division, with battalions organized into regiments as the exception. An example of this exception would be cavalry regiments. Cavalry is unique in that battalions are called "squadrons" and companies are called "troops."

However, most battalions that are actually part of brigades still have a regimental affiliation, such as 1/34 IN Rgt. 1st Battalion of the 34th. This affiliation is pretty much just historical and symbolic these days. It has no real significance as far as the chain of command goes. For example, the infantry battalions of the 3d Brigade of the 2d Infantry Division are 1st Bn 23rd Infantry, 2d Bn 3d Infantry, and 5th Bn 20th Infantry. Each battalion is affiliated with a different regiment but part of the same brigade.

This goes back to the old days when the structure was battalion -> regiment -> brigade -> division. Up through the first part of the 20th century a division was made up of 2 brigades, each of which had 2 regiments. This was called a "square" division. During WW2, the U.S. Army transitioned to "triangular" divisions of 3 brigades each (most other armies had gone triangular during WW1). They did this by cutting out the regiment level, but since the regiment traditionally was thought of as a soldier's "home," battalions kept their regimental designation even though the regiments as functional units were no more.

[Conquistador]

You migth want to drop by yopur local library and look at the older war game books by people like Donald Featherstone, Charles Grant, Jack Scruby, and otehrs from the 1960s.  Those books often had simple rules, (even for tank/WW2 type games although they seemed to like pre-WW2 eras a lot,) outlined in the books.

Most anything published before 1970 mentioned here http://www-personal.umich.edu/~beattie/timeline2.html should not be too complex and only use six sided dice.

Edit: or search for "free war game rules" on the internet and many of those can be downloaded or examined online to see if they meet your needs.

Edit:  Links found:

http://www.freewargamesrules.co.uk/

http://www.jimwallman.org.uk/wargame/




Gracias,

Glenn

[Bergil]

Looking forward to whatever you come up with!

Hopefully if I get some time i'll be working on my 1:72 infantry if more cannon fodder is needed.........

[aliensurfer]

Glenn, many thanks for all that, I'll pick up some free ones to go with what I have and give them a try.

Bergil, most of it for some of the battles (real and imaginary) is already done. If you can recall a couple of dads cabinets are full of 1:76th 1950's-60's military vehicles? We've got those for the Suez crisis, AK47 style games etc, and a lot of 1:72nd armour painted up for the Arab-Israeli war. Next up is cold war then moderns/v.near future what if games. Going for that scale as A/ already have all that stuff, and B/ cheap model railway scenery for buildings etc. It's figures now, think I'll go Elheim for a lot, I'd use R and H models (think that was the one) but seems a bugger to order from him and I cannot see more than 1 pic of the models - though those ones are nice.

[NurgleHH]

Maybe you should take a look at "Victory Decision: SciFi"-Rules by AD Publishing (Agis in this Forum). The LowTech-List can be used for modern games. The rules work with single-besed and multi-based miniatures.

[Bergil]

Got to be honest, pretty interested in post second world war and cold war. As you have 'modern' equipment but they're still limited to some extent and perfect for table top gaming.

Anyway, if you and your dad don't mind others joining in then well, I'd love to 

[Conquistador]

Glenn, many thanks for all that, I'll pick up some free ones to go with what I have and give them a try.

<snip>

You are very welcome.

Don't forget the Library book route for inspiration.

Gracias,

Glenn

[julesav]

AK47 re-loaded by Peter Pig is pretty good and pretty simple for 3rd World or low tech modern games. Army lists and rules all in one book plus the system generates your scenarios for you!