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Author Topic: Cretacea - Dinosaur wargaming - LARGE PICS  (Read 13319 times)

Offline The_Wisecrack

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Cretacea - Dinosaur wargaming - LARGE PICS
« on: January 28, 2014, 03:30:09 PM »
DINOSAURS AND SUCH

Recently i bought a handful of the  http://www.magistermilitum.com/ dinosaurs and they are bloody fantastic. so much so that after buying myself a large ankylosaurus i went back and spent nearly thirty pounds on them in one visit. I love these models and they have inspired me.

anyone who knows of me and my works with black west and my fantasy city game City Grounds (both linked below)
(http://www.ezpainter.co.uk/1/post/2013/10/updates-on-city-grounds-and-black-west.html)
will know that i love to create new and exciting skirmish games based only on the emphasis of fun and excitement.
Both Black west and City grounds have a flavor of stupidity to them which aids in the random fun you can have playing them. City Grounds especially is packed full of mad moves and actions to add to the chaos of gameplay.

The reason i bring these up is that i have now ventured into another rules writing project. Having determined it is something i love to do i have decided to add a new set to my repertoire in the vein of a simplistic but realistic Dinosaur skirmishing experience.

First i bought the miniatures i needed to get the game off the ground. i wanted to get a mix of large and small predators and herbivores so that i may experiment with generating new profiles and a mixture of them at that.
Below pictured is
(L-R) - AT THE BACK -
1. parasaurolophus - a dosile but defensive herd mentality herbivore.
2. Ankylosaurs - a large aggressive herbivore built like a sherman tank
3. Charcarodontasaurus - The largest living tyrannosaur in all his pre painted glory.
4. (middle) - Edmontonia - a medium sized armored herbivore. this little guy best puts in perspective the size of these things to scale being that he is the size of an army tank. litterally! it would be 10mm miniatures to represent humans next to these dudes should i wish!
5. (Front) - Deinonychus - the "velociraptor" (a fake name made up for jurassic park) that is probably one of the most famous small dinosaurs in existence.

In the above picture i have affixed them to the provided bases except for the Deinon's as i wanted them to be able to fight individually. also this way i can give a more focused paint job to each of the little guys without losing patience painting one big base.

My initial impression is that these are not only very historically accurate (to the best of current human knowledge) but that the scale is lovely and the detail is insane. sadly the magister militum page for these guys has the shodiest of shoddy photos, as does the packets they come in. which, i think, is why i didn't buy any until i saw them at crusade last week!

The miniatures have very little to zero flashing and they are a very strong and clean white metal. Each one required some slight cleaning on the bottom of the base, but little else.

DOWN TO BUSINESS!

First thing i did when working on these rules is watch a shizzle ton of dinosaur documentaries. This definitely helped me in my understanding of the social life and combat of the creatures. it appeared to me quickly that a predator prey style game was going to emerge from this, and being that i was aiming for realism i loved that idea.

I wrote down a bunch of rules, and where possible i was adding as many quirks as i could to give it a unique flavour

After writing for three days i decided to have a go at preparing some terrain. being that i had way to much work for easy painter at the moment i couldn't really justify starting painting these guys, but terrain, being my forte, was a justified sacrifice to the work shedule :)
below is some of my initial outcome from that process. ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR TERRAIN IS WIDELY ACCEPTED HERE. IT TURNS OUT THAT DINO'S FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD FOUGHT IN LITERATELY EVERY CLIMATE...SO EVERYTHING GOES!
A super size dino tree. FIIINNAAALLLLYYY something to do with loo rolls. and i love how easy its turning out to be so far.

A W.I.P jungle segment. i have needed a use for these aquarium plants for years. and they have just sat in my box. until now!
I plan to knock up about fifteen of these, so that i may really create a maze of jungle.

I want to make some tall bamboo style jungle segments aswell, if anyone has good examples or ideas for that please let me know. i vaguely remember games workshop doing something like it for the catachan jungle in 2004-5 but i can't remember the colors/ process.

i have also began making markers for the actions in the game. from our test game we found that the turns move very slowly although the gameplay moves fast, which occasionally makes for a confusing time. with simple makers for walking/running/charging and barging, we could better keep track of the dinosaurs movements and more specifically, the turn sequence.

THE GAME

Our test game took about an hour to play and was extremely satisfactory. i played with my little brother who played the part of the carnivores.
Fred poses for the camera  :P
The game board ready to go. even with unpainted dino's and a bunch of twigs and rocks scattered it looks awesome and very inviting. let's jsut say should you see this at a convention, you would want a test game :) - Here you can see the carnivores on the right hand side. a large brooding and hungry carco readies to ambush an unwitting parasauro. he has a small entourage of Deinon's that trace his movements, scavenging what they can. (all of this is very true to the life style of these particular dino's)
The ankylosaurus and the edmontonia placidly graze on the left side of the board, unawares to the danger. in fairness they stayed relatively unawares throughout the game!
ANother pic of the carnivores readying for a feast.
The first gaming bump we hit was the jumping rules! being that i hadn't thought to write them we made them and they will stay. we are using the basic 1/2-4/5-6 chart (table) from lotr and lotow. it has served me well for many years, and i won't stop using it yet, it just WORKS. Above a parasauro attempts to jump some debris, he makes the jump but on a four he only lands the other side. He was trying to jump because he saw the carco coming and had to roll a spot and flee check. ALL HERBIVORES in this game follow this procedure when a carnivore is within a certain distance. i believe it really adds to the realism.
In retaliation and in ballsy parsauro style the para attacks the carco with a headbut to his tail. he causes one wound and the carco is caught off guard. The deinon's just stand and watch as they plan their attacks.
in the distance you can see the ankylosaurus and the edmontonia fleeing. being that the edmon spotted the para fleeing but still hadnt seen the carco he had to test for spot and flee. in response to his fleeing so did the ankylosaurus. this mechanic makes for a very interesting game as the predator closes in and the herbivores flee like mad in all directions, sometime uncontrolled by the player. later in the game the carnivores get their time to shine as they close in on combat!
here you can see the deinon measuring for a barge. a barge is a full length run but must be in a 45 degree angle from the attacker to the victim unblocked. in this case there is much debris in the way and he is forced to simply run after the enemy, as his brothers have. A succesful barge allows for one extra attack before the intended attack. this is what sets a charge and a barge apart.
having dealt with pesky smaller predators the aggressive ankylosaurus sprints into battle with the carco and headbutts him straight in the tail. this renders his tail useless and makes it impossible for him to tail whip for the rest of the game. the ankylosaurus is a beast and amroured at that!
turning to face the miniatures is a large aspect of Cretacea, in turning the miniatures the game becomes more visual. backwards for a tail whip, forward for a bite and even a little lift here and there with added sound effects...for fun ;)
the game ended here, in turn three, one hour down the line. As the carco delivered the final scathing blow to the ankylosaurus and brought him down to china town in a pile of armored shell.

CONCLUSION SO FAR....

In conclusion Cretacea is young and has LOTS of growing to do. there are many tokens to be made and replicated many times over, there maybe even is cards for the individual creatures to make. but for now it is great. it plays well and it has SO MUCH room for interesting rules like broken teeth and disable dinosaurs.

My favorite aspect of the game is that cover is only good for hiding out of LOS and that it is mainly close combat. i played a game of dead mans hand on the weekend and i found it to be a glorified £20 version of my free game black west. i won't hold it against people playing it but the game had a very lazy and underdeveloped combat system for close combat. so much so the guy demoing it said "oh god no one goes into combat...what do i do now?". this in itself is often the downfall of skirmish gaming. and i hope to expand on that later. makind cretacea one of the first FREE and ClOSE COMBAT ORIENTED GAME on the market.

ALL COMMENTS AND CRITICISM WELCOME. PLEASE IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE GAME ASK AWAY.

MORE UPDATES SOON.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 11:29:09 AM by The_Wisecrack »
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Offline Bloodysword

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 259
Re: Cretacea - a new game for dinosaur skirmishes
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2014, 03:45:49 AM »
Nice job. Love your idea and imagination. Keep posting. Id really like to see how this project proceeds.

Offline Froggy the Great

  • Scatterbrained Genius
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    • My deviantArt gallery of painted figures
Re: Cretacea - a new game for dinosaur skirmishes
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2014, 01:44:05 PM »
Yeah, I'd love a PDF when you're done.
You, sir, are not allowed to attempt a takeover of the solar system until your octopus sobers up.

Offline Belgian

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Re: Cretacea - a new game for dinosaur skirmishes
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2014, 02:09:16 PM »
Interesting concept looking forward in seeing more progress although being a terrain scratchbuilder I must say I wouldn't be impressed by the table at a convention (comparing with the high standards of Crisis Antwerp) but a good table for playtesting, I playtested on blank tables with counters ... . That said if you're interested in making more terrain such as jungle pieces I have a whole load of tutorials on my blog including jungle trees, ferns, fern trees, bamboo, .... You can all find them here: http://wargameterrain.blogspot.be/p/scratchbuild-service.html

Kind regards
Wargame News and Terrain Blog, daily updated with the latest wargame news

Interested click https://wargameterrain.blogspot.com/

Offline The_Wisecrack

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Re: Cretacea - a new game for dinosaur skirmishes
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2014, 03:19:28 PM »
thanks guys. lots more ot come. and in regards to the table lol that is very much a test table. the first in fact :P i have barely begun on it :P. but ensure that some cool stuff is coming. first dinosaur to come is the parasaurolophus.

:)

also i shall get the rules typed up asap.

Offline von Lucky

  • Galactic Brain
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  • Melbourne, Australia
    • Donner und Blitzen Wargaming
Re: Cretacea - a new game for dinosaur skirmishes
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2014, 06:52:57 AM »
a good start, looking forward to this develop.
- Karsten

"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

Blog: Donner und Blitzen

Offline The_Wisecrack

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Re: Cretacea - a new game for dinosaur skirmishes
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2014, 09:29:21 PM »
Hey again guys

small update. between commissions and "real life" i found the time to slap some paint on a few of the dinosaurs :)

check out the parasaurolophus below and the Deinonichys after :)





i aim to have the dinos all painted by next week and the terrain at least in W.i.P completely so that i may lay out a table very soon!

C&C welcome:)

Offline The_Wisecrack

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Re: Cretacea - a new game for dinosaur skirmishes
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2014, 11:10:15 PM »
NEW DINOS!

i have this evening finished the last of my dinos (for now) and i am very happy with the results. the ANkyl and the edmon ended up pretty historically accurate (as far as we know) but the charcarodontosaurus ended up somewhere else entirely. more than anything i wanted to create a sense of difference to the other dinosaurs.

i feel that the dark red ink under the layered brown to beige drybrushes creates an almost scaly effect. which i love!



Next is the Ankylosaurus, this tanking monster was leather browns, beiges and green bone. the bone was brown to beige with a white top then a scaly green ink and a white drybrush.



Finally the last dinosaur so far is the edmontosaurus, much akin to his larger cousin the ankyl he shares many attributes but mainly he has diferent bone, and also a green body, instead of armor.



RULES AND TERRAIN NEXT

i am typing up the first draft of the rules tonight and tomorow and i hope to have them online asap.

Kind Regards
Arthur

Offline The_Wisecrack

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Re: Cretacea - a new game for dinosaur skirmishes
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2014, 07:49:09 PM »
Apologies for the threadnomancy but i felt there was little reason to start a new thread on this topic be it that i am only adding to the same project.

Since my last post i have made slow but massive progress. I have re drafted the rules and added in the rules foir spot and flee checks that me and fred devised last time.

The first thing i did was make some terrain for the collection but in my stupidity i glued the aquarium plants down prematurely and i feel that there is a lesson here for everyone making jungle terrain who does not intend to paint the leaves they use.
Firs thing i did to rectify this was make some of the SIMPLEST terrain i have ever made, i call them twig bases.
 


these are litterally just cardboard with large twigs on them to represent fallen brachen and trees. These where given a basing of sand, an undercaoting of black and a simple brown to beige drybrush. That was the entire build. following that i added some small drill holes and popped the plants into the holes. After some flocking i ended up with a very simple but in my opinion perfect product.



pictured below is a close up of the product and how it looks on the battlefield. in these pictures you can see the way in which the twigs, although simple create an almost "road like" directional passage.





i think that i can use these forest bases to create a funnel for a stampede or a enclosure for a dead end and a dinosaur massacre.
here is another picture i took that i loved for effect and for fun



I also finished the large tree and i am extremely happy with the outcome.
i wish that i had worked more on the pipe cleaner branches before i put the leaves on because they look a little pipe cleaner ish but i shall add more leaves to the next few. i also used paper mache instead of masking tape on the next three which are also pictured below in W.I.P




finally i have bought some larger dinosaurs and i shall be using them as brachiosaurus. I have painted them but for now i shall include a hieght scale picture for you to get an idea of the scale of these guys.
I shall provide painted pictures later and hopefuly a battle report after that.



The brachiosaurus are from hawkins bizaar and The Works. i believe they are only british shops but there really is an insane abundance of these toys in toy shops and it is SO easy to get a set of dinosaurs for yourself to get gaming with.

TW

Offline von Lucky

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Re: Cretacea - a new game for dinosaur skirmishes -LARGE PICS- MANY
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2014, 10:29:03 PM »
This is coming along nicely. I like the technique of the large trees - plan to use that in the future.

Offline Vermis

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Re: Cretacea - a new game for dinosaur skirmishes -LARGE PICS- MANY
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2014, 11:45:54 PM »
I'm sorry about this. I know I'm being 'that guy', but...

realistic

Okay.

Quote
3. Charcarodontasaurus - The largest living tyrannosaur

Not quite

Quote
5. (Front) - Deinonychus - the "velociraptor" (a fake name made up for jurassic park)

o_o

Someone tell Henry Fairfield Osborn.

Quote
My initial impression is that these are not only very historically accurate (to the best of current human knowledge)

Hmm. :?

Entertaining-looking game, tho.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 12:37:18 AM by Vermis »

Offline The_Wisecrack

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Re: Cretacea - a new game for dinosaur skirmishes -LARGE PICS- MANY
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2014, 12:34:19 PM »
vermis - ignoring all of your commments. if you have nothing CONSTUCTIVELY negative to say. then dont, and tbh  in my opinion you don't get the reason people wargame.
Charco was the biggest tyranosaur and if not then many tv programs which are made by proffessionals LIED to us all!
the velociraptor WAS used as the suedoname for the DEINON and not correct in jurasic park.
 if your going to poke the realism comment, quote more than one word. its a bit childish.
and i am very aware its not historically accurate. but neither are the dinosaurs in the natural history museum- WHY? because humans have no REAL way of knowing and we are ALL just guessing.

please be constructive. ive worked hard on this and i just want to share my work. saying mean things like that just makes you look like some angry 15 year old who has nothing better to do than slag other peoples stuff off.

also rectifying it with  "looks like a fun game". doesnt really save you.

This is coming along nicely. I like the technique of the large trees - plan to use that in the future.

thanks for that :) that is a nice comment, they are cheap and lovely looking on the battlefield. they are WAY to big for even the dinos but they will be very multi project and they should be useful for a long time.

Kind Regards
TW

Offline Stavros

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 111
Re: Cretacea - a new game for dinosaur skirmishes -LARGE PICS- MANY
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2014, 07:49:27 PM »
Looks an interesting setup....Not sure if you have a B&M store near you but they have some really nice silk and plastic plants in stock including some ferns which would look great with your dinos.

Offline The_Wisecrack

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Re: Cretacea - a new game for dinosaur skirmishes -LARGE PICS- MANY
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2014, 08:46:57 PM »
Hey again, b&m ? not sure myself. is it an abreviation for a store or is the name b&m?

i have also convinced my brother and maaaayyyyybe my lady to have a game with me this week. so extra trees painted permitting, i should have a test game up .

QUESTION -
Does anyone have success with the old "books under the gaming cloth" method for ellevation and hills?

TW

Offline Legion1963

  • Mastermind
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Re: Cretacea - a new game for dinosaur skirmishes -LARGE PICS- MANY
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2014, 09:06:33 PM »
Very interesting project and i like your style of painting. Being a lifelong dinosaur fan i will watch this closely.

As for your question about my hills/elavation on your gametable by putting books or such things under some fabric. I have had the same idea but have not tried it yet although i personaly would not only use books. Just try it and see what works and what not.

I noticed that you used cardboard to create some jungle terrain. How did you prevent the carboard to warp after putting glue or paint on it?

 

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