What if WW1 never happened?

[commissarmoody]

What if the Great war never happened? This hypothetical question is asked in this NPR segment. Comes with a 9 min long recording.  I am posting this up to see what every ones thoughts and ideas are on this?

http://www.npr.org/2014/03/11/285915312/a-world-without-wwi-featuring-music-man-lenin-and-herbalist-hitler

[former user]

the Miyazaki movie "Kiki's delivery service" is set in an alternative history where the world wars did not happen. Very interesting visuals

[commissarmoody]

I will have to check that movie out.

[former user]

I have read and listened to the material You linked to. I am not very appreciative.

the piece rests on two components, the not-asassination and what would have happened had the war not occured.
well, the latter are interesting thoughts IMHO, why the former is a bit simplistic, ignoring all the build up and the imperialistic european policies. So a rather biased impression....

but what makes me angry is the obvious convolution of recorded statements that tries to give the impression of a discusion of the topic, in order to shamelessly plug the book all is about.

However, as a starter for a discussion about what if considerations not that bad.
I always enjoy contrafactual theory as a means to understand history better

[maxxon]

the Miyazaki movie "Kiki's delivery service" is set in an alternative history where the world wars did not happen. Very interesting visuals

It's a great movie, but  I don't think it's really related to WWI.  Apart from the existence of witches there isn't a whole lot alternative about the setting.

The city is modelled after 1930's Stockholm (Miyazaki tried to get rights to Pippi but they turned him down).

[commissarmoody]

Yeah it kind of is a shameless plug, I guess I should have just kept with the question. Of what if the war never happened?
I mean we humans will always have a reason to fight. But maybe the war would not have been "as bad".
Or Maybe just another regional or colonial conflict. Or maybe the next major war was between the French and UK?

[von der Tann]

The French would still be missing Alsace-Lorraine ... .. and certainly would still bear a grudge because of 1870/71 ... who would blame them ...

[former user]

but  I don't think it's really related to WWI.  Apart from the existence of witches there isn't a whole lot alternative about the setting.

well, actually, it is
here is a starting point:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Anime/KikisDeliveryService
but also, if You watch the movie carefully, You will notice slight discrepancies between the style of the apparent era, the 50ies - 60ies cars, TV, clothing etc, but the fact that they still have passenger biplanes and are developing zeppelins.
You can also read about how the setting was designed.
Also, it is quite clear that aviation developed with WW1, and since they are in 1960 and still fly biplanes, WW1 couldn't have happened

the thing with the witches is part of the plot and of course related to the setting insofar as helping to establish the alternate reality.
and they are apparently making a live action version
http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2013/04/23/live-action-film-kikis-delivery-service-confirmed

oh, what the heck, read for Yourself....

Of what if the war never happened?
I mean we humans will always have a reason to fight. But maybe the war would not have been "as bad".
Or Maybe just another regional or colonial conflict. Or maybe the next major war was between the French and UK?

I actually can't imagine how the war could not have happened, because the final rails towards it were laid 1871 with the ascension of Germany as a major European power, the humiliation of France and the unwillingness of Britain to "make space"

but it is a very fruitful concept for wargaming in any case and IMHO worth discussing it

[commissarmoody]

The French would still be missing Alsace-Lorraine ... .. and certainly would still bear a grudge because of 1870/71 ... who would blame them ...

true, but did the French treaty with Russia covering a war of reconquest with Germany? I mean if France is the aggressor, and if Germany didn't invade though Belgium would it just have been another "European War"? As Far as the UK, US, and all the rest of the powers were concerned?
Ether way the Map and history would have change dramatically.

[former user]

I do believe that Britain actually played France and Germany against each other in order to control competitors, and that the war might not have escalated had they managed to keep the panslavic issue and the french revanche apart

[commissarmoody]

Right? And that's assuming they could come up with a valid reason to fight by 1914. Which I am sure in the game of one up men ship they would have found an excuse.

[Mad Doc Morris]

On Germany's behalf, the war was "aimed" at Russia. Preventing a possible intervention of the Entente powers by conquering France first was deemed essential, though. That's the main and possibly only reason why Germany bothered with a western front at all. Easily forgotten over the four years of slaughter in eastern France that followed, of course.

Of course as well there is no single reason but rather a complicated web of mindsets, events and decisions that ultimately led to the war. Contrafactual history is a nice playground, but I'm not convinced eliminating WW1 as a whole will work. As it happens there are educational games simulating the July Crisis of 1914 which are meant to provide insights in reasoning and decision-making of the different parties back then. This narrow angle makes it a more worthwhile 'intellectual exercise' I think.

[former user]

As it happens there are educational games simulating the July Crisis of 1914 which are meant to provide insights in reasoning and decision-making of the different parties back then. This narrow angle makes it a more worthwhile 'intellectual exercise' I think.

cool shit! 
links?

[Mad Doc Morris]

cool shit! 
links?

Not really. One such game was held at university when I studied there, and experiences were summarised in an article afterwards, IIRC published in "Geschichte in Wissenschaft und Unterricht" – but that's no help to our non-German friends anyway. There's also a (again, German-language) recording of a school-level play-through on Youtube. This might well been based on the same 'engine' if curtailed for the purpose. The "Planspiel" itself isn't available on the web, though, as far as I know.

[former user]

"Geschichte in Wissenschaft und Unterricht"

which issue? I can do german