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Author Topic: Tank Trap question  (Read 1949 times)

Offline zorg

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 170
Tank Trap question
« on: March 16, 2014, 08:55:26 AM »
I'm about to make some tank traps/dragon's teeth/Panzersperren for my 6mm project. Not being a tanker, I was wondering how effective these actually are to stop tanks.

Wikipedia claims they're not that effective due to special clearing vehicles and sappers. otoh, it seems to me that if you add barbed wire and various mines, it should be difficult to just drive an armored dozer through, or sent in some guys to blow the traps up.

So, would a field of tank traps stop or impede a modern oder semi-modern tank? Would it make sense to rate a field of tank traps as "impassable", or is it just "Difficult terrain"?

Thanks for your time!
understanding is a three-edged sword

Offline von der Tann

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 391
  • "Viel Feind - viel Ehr!" - Georg von Frundsberg
Re: Tank Trap question
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2014, 11:28:16 AM »
Well ... tank traps are effective. Period. No tank will go through concrete blocks. Period.

But...

There is nothing as fun as going around a tank trap. Most of the time we tried to circle a "trap" (minefiled etc.) not push through it. That being pretty much standard in Germany.
But if the situation calls for breaking through ... you got a lot of nice little toys to accomplish that. Mine clearance stuff etc.
Keep in mind that a block of concrete or a ditch will not fight back. So if the enemy let's you, you can go all "home improvement" on those things.

But ...

No sane military leader will block with tank traps, minefields etc. and just let those things be, especially during a defensive action. There will always be troops present to at least take pot shots at your shiny new toys when you try to clear an obstacle.

So long story short - all by its own a tank trap is worth shit. Covered by enemy troops it can ruin your day.

"Viel Feind - viel Ehr!"
(Georg von Frundsberg, 1473 - 1528)

Offline carlos marighela

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 10864
  • Flamenguista até morrer.
Re: Tank Trap question
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2014, 02:17:01 PM »
There is an old military dictum. 'An obstacle is only an obstacle when covered by fire'. Most obstacles, tank traps included are not designed to stop someone traversing that bit of ground, merely impede their movement and thus channel them into ground of the defender's choosing. Given time and the proper engineering resources no obstacle is unbreachable, hence obstacles are covered by fire. That might be direct fire or pre-registered indirect fire missions.
Em dezembro de '81
Botou os ingleses na roda
3 a 0 no Liverpool
Ficou marcado na história
E no Rio não tem outro igual
Só o Flamengo é campeão mundial
E agora seu povo
Pede o mundo de novo

Offline Arlequín

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 6218
  • Culpame de la Bossa Nova...
Re: Tank Trap question
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2014, 03:59:57 PM »
What ^he said. Sure if you've the time, equipment and energy, any field defences can be overcome. Under fire or encountering them as a surprise during an attack is a different thing. Whether 'difficult' or 'impassable' depends on the type and the preparation... even a ditch can be effective if it's wide, steep and deep enough.

Tank traps come in several varieties and even the smaller ones can leave a vehicle grounded with its tracks spinning uselessly on occasion. You'll see the same effect on some car parks when people can't be bothered to stay in the line and try to jump the queue by crossing the kerbs dividing sections off.

;)

Offline Mathyoo

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 269
    • My blog here!
Re: Tank Trap question
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2014, 07:15:25 PM »
Most has been told, but in general, iron "czech hedgehog" traps would be less effective than huge concrete dragon teeth. I'd imagine AT ditch would be very effective as well.

It's logical that anything can be crossed, but nothing works on it's own on a battlefield.

Offline zorg

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 170
Re: Tank Trap question
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2014, 09:07:31 PM »
Thanks guys. I'll post a few pics when I have the dragon teeth done (doing them in 6mm is more fiddly than I thought... :) ).

Offline CptJake

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1418
  • Hooah!
Re: Tank Trap question
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2014, 09:48:26 AM »
Thought the guys above have done a fantastic job, I'll try to add a bit more:

Obstacles are hardly ever used alone, they are put in according a thought out and cohesive plan and generally tied into natural and existing terrain.   Further out in the obstacle belt you'll see some channelling obstacles, designed to get folks to go around them BUT into an area of the defender's choosing (his kill zone/fire sack/whatever his doctrinal term is).   As you move closer to the defender you may see turning and disruptive obstacles, designed to break up his formations and again, have him go around them, presenting the defender with flank shots.   As you get in closer you'll finally see blocking obstacles.   These are meant to halt the attacker and force him to bring up breaching assets. 

Jake
Every time a bad person dies, a Paratrooper gets his wings.

 

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