Ancient Armenians?

[Prof.Witchheimer]

I'm talking about first century BC (Mithridatic wars) and/or third century AD.

How they did look like? Cavalry like Parthians? Cataphraktii and horse archers? Any specifics? Osprey MAA175 has a picture of an Armenian cataphract though 3rd century AD with a conic helmet. Would it work for first century BC?

What about infantry? I was wondering if I could use Perry's Armenian bowmen or am I going over the top with this idea? What about regular (probably armoured) infantry?

Any hints would be appreciated.

[delbruck]

1st century BC
Cataphracts: similar to Parthians
Pikes: Seleucids  with trousers
Imitation Legionaries: ideally with trousers (although I could live with greaves)
Thueophoroi: similar to Hellenistic but likely with trousers
other native troops: tunic, trousers, Phrygian cap, javelins or bow

I think Perry Armenians are too medieval

As I recall the Osprey Armenian cavalry is based on a much later figure ((10th century?)

Personally, I would probably use Aventine figures. I think the Parthian horse archers are being designed. They just released cataphracts.

[bigredbat]

I gather that Aventine horse archers are due out in a couple of weeks time.

There are some Black Tree Skythians that might pass for hillmen types:-

[delbruck]

For pikes in trousers you would need to use Gripping Beast Polemarch, 1st Corps, or Crusader.

As an alternative/addition to the traditional cataphracts 1st Corps has an Iranian cavalry in their sucessor line which could be useful.

I don't think anyone makes an Imitation legionary/thorakite in trousers.

Armenian horse archers would be similiar to Parthian. The primary differences would be more phrygian caps and less baggy trousers.

[Prof.Witchheimer]

Thanks for the hints, guys! GB Polemarch are already on my to-buy list since a while. Though I will avoid 1st Corps, they're just too small for my taste. Simon, a good idea with the BTD Scythians.

Coming Aventine Parthians is a must-have but I will use them as Parthians I've ordered some Warlord Parthian mounted archers and will try to replace some of their heads.

Though still not sure about Imitation Legionaries in Armenia 

[nervisfr]

I think you will need to find a copy of WRG publications as source books  :

Armies and enemies of ....like these :



and



a must for an ancient player.   

cheers
Eric

[Prof.Witchheimer]

I know these. I've got the Duncan Head's book, it has no Armenians. The other one is out of print unfortunately.

[delbruck]

There is not a lot in the Armies & Enemies of Imperial Rome on the Armenians. There are two drawings; one of a generic eastern javelinman and one of a heavy cavalryman based on an 11th century bas relief. There is also a list of the army at Tigranocerta in 69 BC:

17,000   Armenian cataphracts
18,000   Armenian horse archers
20,000   other cavalry (including Mardian horse archers, Cappadocians & Albanians)
20,000   archers & slingers
150,000 other infantry (including pikemen and perhaps 70,000 Pontic trained imiatation legionaries)
35,000   pioneers and other non-combatants

If there is any truth to the list one can probably drop the last zero and get something like the real number (25,000, not 250,000).

3rd century AD: There is some speculation in the Montvert Sassanid book that one of the enemy armored infantrymen on the Arch of Gallerius may be Armenian. He wears mail or scale armor, a rectangular shield, trousers, putees, and a (covered) helmet similar to the Aventine Parthian cataphract on the right:

[Prof.Witchheimer]

If their is any truth to the list one can probably drop the last zero and get something like the real number (25,000, not 250,000).

Seconded. And thank you for the info about the Imperial Rome book, it's certainly useful

[Mithridates1]

Have always run Armenian cataphracts in my Pontic army so was interested in your original question but had not yet registered.

Further to the above comments suggest you check out Gripping Beast and Musketeer Dark Ages infantry - some real possibilities here for both armoured and unarmoured types with trousers.   Add pila and Roman shields to the armoured guys and you have imitation legionaries for Tigranes or spears/javelins for the later types.

Other imitation legionaries with an 'eastern' trousered look could come from A&A's Palmryan range - thinking of the armoured chaps with cowls, based on the 3rd century wall painting from the synagogue at Dura Europus.   The Command Figures are good as well - have used these in some Seleucid units.

Come to think of it, well lead the early Armenians are basically Parthians with good infantry.

Good luck

Garry

[Prof.Witchheimer]

Thanks, Garry, some nice ideas, quite accidentally I've bought some Palmyrans a few weeks ago.

[nervisfr]

you can mix with that references from BTD :

From their Sarmatian range !



They look easily like armenian moutainers.....


mixed with that one from Gripping Beast Prussian, take off the bowcase and add a round shield and you got some original guys.

[bigredbat]

Great expression there!  :-)

[philhendry]

I really wouldn't use the 'Armies and Enemies' books as sources for wargames armies these days - they're at least 30 years out of date. We know a lot more now than we did then! It just requires a little 'digging'.

[Prof.Witchheimer]

mixed with that one from Gripping Beast Prussian, take off the bowcase and add a round shield and you got some original guys.

These Prussians are really nice! very useful hint, Eric, thank you.