What matters more? Lead vs Paint

[maxxon]

Agreed. I don't mean to sound like I'm slagging on the painting aspect, but I've always felt that for me and many others painting minis is like filling in a colouring book. How much raw unbridled creativity is there in choosing the right shade of feldgrau for wehrmacht uniforms?

I learned to paint with the old base-wash-drybrush method, which is very mechanistic and suited me fine, because I'm definitely not an artist. I can not draw. Give me a blank paper and I can produce a stick figure at best. But I can emphasize what is already on the sculpt -- the folds, the creases etc.

I look up to those who produce something from nothing.

That's why I fell in love with the Dallimore 3-color style and have spent years trying to learn it. Instead of merely accenting existing detail on a figure, he can create detail where none existed before, e.g. folds in cloth.

I don't really care about the art/craft distinction, but for me the next level is adding something to the miniature that wasn't there before. I don't care how smooth your blends are if you're just accenting the existing lines in the sculpt. Adding something takes real talent.

Some time ago I saw a pic of a very well painted model. Very nice and smooth color transitions. All in all a very good job...

...except the gun looked like a solid hunk of ice. Very smoothly shaded solid hunk of ice, but nothing like a real gun. Sculpting a pistol is challenging and no doubt detail was missing from the sculpt. But the painter simply painted what was on the sculpt failing to realize and portray what it really is: a machine composed of multiple moving parts, not a solid paperweight.

[former user]

maybe the OP should set up a poll to make things easier?
the question asked is basically the old renaissance paragone of disegnio vs colore transferred to miniatures

http://www.oxfordartonline.com/public/page/benz/themes/Renaissance2
also the science of painting in this article about Leonardo
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/336408/Leonardo-da-Vinci
with the small difference that they are not arbitrary but sequenced in that the sculpting (principal outline) comes first and determines by far the coloration

so, let's see... artistic expression
is restricted in sculpting by the scale and norms of acceptable proportions as related to the subject
is restricted in miniature painting by the sculpting mainly and by a little amount of context (historical accuracy, fictional design)

so basically both are somehow context restricted, whereas the one depends of the other by a very large amount.
So I would concede that in terms of restriction, the relevance is debatable, whereas methodically, the question is obsolete given that there is no painting without sculpting.....

as to the digression about the artistry of miniature painting....
well, I will be the last one to contest that there are a few participants in the hobby who can be regarded as artists, these contributing in the sculpting department mainly; not so many in the painting department. Interestingly if I were to name someone (IMHO), the colour control (Captain Blood) and the tonality control (Blackwolf) come to mind, and it is remarkable that both also excel in sculpting and scenic design, disciplines beyond painting alone. So if I were to use these two examples as proof for artistry in miniature painting, I would claim that it would be the artistic approach and not the painting per se that qualifies them for this distinction. That said, please take this argumentative sketching of mine for my claim that the painting of sculptures of any kind is (almost) never art, but craftsmanship of (quite often)  the best quality.

Plus, I always get suspicious when people blow their own trumpet too loudly... It tends to be self aggrandizing rather than reasonable reflection....
And I might get convinced once art museums or exhibitions open "contemporary departments for miniature painting" and essays appear about that in schoolbooks and academia.
But not before

[Cubs]

Plus, I always get suspicious when people blow their own trumpet too loudly... It tends to be self aggrandizing rather than reasonable reflection....

Oh no, a subtlely worded insult ... whatever shall I do?

[former user]

maybe not take it as directed towards You? or anyone in particular?
but as a general statement?  

seriously, I tried to argue by positive exclusion and what happens....? 

[Cubs]

Arrogance, ego, self interest .... I have all the qualities of a truly great artist, see?

[H.M.Stanley]

Arrogance, ego, self interest .... I have all the qualities of a truly great artist, see?

 

[Silent Invader]

I tend towards the view that if the primary interest is gaming (using the output) then it is craft, whereas if the output is primarily for display (reflecting on the output) then it is art.

As I buy wargaming pieces to game with then finishing them is a craft and that craft isn't complete until they are painted. Thus, I side with painting over sculpting.

[former user]

Arrogance, ego, self interest .... I have all the qualities of a truly great artist, see?

oh, I shall send You a bottle of Absinthe if You send me a picture of both Your ears - attached where they belong