*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
April 29, 2024, 08:22:47 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Donate

We Appreciate Your Support

Recent

Author Topic: Why successive editions?  (Read 7592 times)

Offline Conquistador

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4375
  • There are hostile eye watching us from the arroyos
Why successive editions?
« on: April 28, 2014, 02:04:22 PM »
Not  a criticism as such but just a random thought.

Just my player mentality at work but why would you get/need multiple editions of a rules set?

Multiple copies I understand, multiple editions seems... odd.

Lack of absolutely mental play testers who live outside of boxes as a life style?  "Why can't I create a 'moves half an inch per turn, armored to the point of ridiculous, armed with with a  poison ice pick' character the rules allow for it," types...

Lack of play testing?  Too few trials?  Too focused a set of play testers?

Change in intent/design of the rules?

Army size creep (skirmish game ends up with 100 plus figures per side) changes affects of key rules?

Mixing Genres (psionics in SF becomes "Fireball Magic" in effect) for all practical purposes?

What drives this kind of development?

Gracias,

Glenn
Viva Alta California!  Las guerras de España,  Las guerras de las Américas,  Las guerras para la Libertad!

Offline Dr. Zombie

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 3096
Re: Why successive editions?
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2014, 02:14:06 PM »
I don't think there is one reason for new editions.

It is probably a mixture of all sorts of things. First edition going out of print, feedback from players to incorporate, fixing typoes and cut/paste errrors, clarification of some rules, the need to add something new to the game, or remove something.

And of course to earn more money. If you only sell one rulebook to rule them all (and in the darkness bind them). You won't make any money of it. Look at GW they have made a fine art of churning out new rules and charging people obscene amounts for them.

Offline Cubs

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4927
  • "I simply cannot survive without beauty ..."
Re: Why successive editions?
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2014, 06:43:11 PM »
I guess there has to be a limit to the amount of playtesting you can do on a set of rules before you release them. You can't expect to iron out all the creases and every rule system will begin to accumulate issues and loopholes over time, like barnacles on a ship.

Testing groups are more effective the larger they are, and if you can monitor customer feedback from hundreds or thousands of people effectively then new editions will be a chance to give people more of what they want and less of what they don't, if done right.

Some things drift in and out of fashion as well, and it's tough to really nail down why that should be.

I don't mind seeing a new edition of a ruleset every decade or so, if I can see improvements made in the right places. I do roll my eyes when there's a production line of editions quite blatantly made for cynical financial gain ("You know of whom I speak,"), but then it's a business, not a charity. If people are still buying, the market is obviously there.
'Sir John ejaculated explosively, sitting up in his chair.' ... 'The Black Gang'.

Paul Cubbin Miniature Painter

Offline Legion1963

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1086
Re: Why successive editions?
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2014, 09:26:25 PM »
Money.

Offline Archie

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 504
    • The Grinning Frog
Re: Why successive editions?
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2014, 11:20:55 PM »
On one hand its a chance to improve the game but too often I feel it is just about the money thar can be generated.

I would rather have a ruleset I like and buy expansions (which actually add new things) than have the game updated ... hence my liking for Gods of Battle from Foundry which only has one edition which is pretty complete in itself.

Offline fastolfrus

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 5253
Re: Why successive editions?
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2014, 06:46:10 PM »
I like the rules from Peter Pig.

They tend to update/upgrade every now and again, but it's generally only after a few years.
A new version of PBI is being playtested at present, but the last version came out in 2006, so once in 8 years seems fair.
Gary, Glynis, and Alasdair (there are three of us, but we are too mean to have more than one login)

Offline Captain Blood

  • Global Moderator
  • Elder God
  • Posts: 19320
Re: Why successive editions?
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2014, 06:50:09 PM »

Offline Diakon

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 866
  • Fancy a Battlefight?
    • My Blog - Tales From The Lead Pile
Re: Why successive editions?
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2014, 07:15:13 PM »
I think that less than 2 years between editions is blatant profiteering (or racketeering  lol).

Offline Archie

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 504
    • The Grinning Frog
Re: Why successive editions?
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2014, 11:40:59 PM »
I think that less than 2 years between editions is blatant profiteering (or racketeering  lol).

I cant think what company you might be meaning ...  8) (said ironically in case you wondered!)

Offline Argonor

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 11336
  • Attic Attack: Mead and Dice!
    • Argonor's Wargames
Re: Why successive editions?
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2014, 10:36:27 AM »
Of course there's the obvious reason, that a new edition generates income from existing customers.

That being said, I think it's a good idea to streamline a ruleset that has been loaded with extra rules, maybe containing contradicting rules in different expansions, etc. It will make the game more accessible for new players, while existing players can chose whether or not to upgrade (we will, probably, if we like the game). I hope that Strange Aeons 2nd Ed. will be a good example of that.

Making frequent updates, just to churn out more profit, should not be encouraged, though, as long as the game does not really benefit from it in any way.
Ask at the LAF, and answer shall thy be given!


Cultist #84

Offline joroas

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 7803
Re: Why successive editions?
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2014, 11:52:02 AM »
Brace Yourself: Warhammer 40K 7th Edition Is Coming
'So do all who see such times. But that is not for us to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that we are given.'

Offline Argonor

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 11336
  • Attic Attack: Mead and Dice!
    • Argonor's Wargames
Re: Why successive editions?
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2014, 12:22:18 PM »
Brace Yourself: Warhammer 40K 7th Edition Is Coming

Who cares, really?

Offline thebinmann

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4218
  • Can't paint but dreams...
Re: Why successive editions?
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2014, 12:26:49 PM »
Money.

Works for iPhone and GW very well!

Offline Kitsune

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 706
    • Mosquito on the Tenth Floor
Re: Why successive editions?
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2014, 10:14:18 AM »
Who cares, really?

The legions of 40K diehards?

Offline Arlequín

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 6218
  • Culpame de la Bossa Nova...
Re: Why successive editions?
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2014, 10:34:43 AM »
Well in the example that has seemed to spring to everyone's mind, it is hard to disagree that money is the motive. I can understand that with any given rule set someone might come along with a better way of doing things and prompt a change, but seven times in an increasingly shorter time span (every six years, then four and now two), with largely only cosmetic changes, does beggar belief. 

In more historical sets the impact of new research/evidence can prompt a change over time, as can more extended play-testing and feedback. Certainly almost six months worth of feedback and further research has prompted some changes to the Chain of Command mod for the Spanish Civil War, that have warranted work on a V.2... but as they are free, I doubt there will be any complaints.

I do not expect anyone to get it right first time... but seemingly getting it wrong six times seems hard to reconcile.  ::)

I do wonder if 8th Edition might come full circle and be just like 1st Edition.  lol

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
7 Replies
2328 Views
Last post June 18, 2008, 11:37:17 AM
by Stu
19 Replies
4744 Views
Last post April 28, 2012, 10:44:59 PM
by dm
1 Replies
1460 Views
Last post July 14, 2012, 04:09:08 PM
by Plynkes
8 Replies
2656 Views
Last post October 06, 2012, 12:52:25 PM
by manic _miner
0 Replies
668 Views
Last post January 22, 2016, 05:47:26 PM
by joroas