Chapelle de fer /Kettle hat

[westwaller]

Does anyone know when the Chapelle de fer /Kettle hat type of helmet first started to appear in medieval europe?

Gravetts English Knight Osprey has it appearing in the 1250s as does Rotheros Blandford of Medieval military costume, but other sources (the internet) mention it as being around earlier but with nothing to back this up. Is there any evidence of this?

Would a chapple de fer look out of place on troops in the early 1200s for instance? Say about 1215ish?

Thanks in advance,

Westwaller.

[Paul]

Gravetts English Knight Osprey has it appearing in the 1250s as does Rotheros Blandford of Medieval military costume, Westwaller.

They are basing that on the pics in the Morgan Bible, 1250, but they were around previous to that, 1011 in England, but we´ll let them off...they probably can´t speak german
http://burgfuehrungen.dreipage2.de/link_35128783.html

[westwaller]

Wow! What a good resource, thanks for that, it is most helpful

[Cubs]

Wiki tells me they were first produced in England in 1011, which is very early, but were not particularly popular at that time.

[Atheling]

The best answer that I can give is that they were introduced to Europe earlier than expected. From memory (sorry, I don't have the time to check my sources) they were used in the Third Crusade so 1189 plus would be my best guestimate at present.

Darrell.

[westwaller]

Thank you everyone for your additional information.

Cubs, that wikipedia date of 1011 is what made me ask the question in the first place...

[Cubs]

There's a few 'Evolution of the Helmet' type diagrams knocking about, which all seem to include the kettle hat shape from around 1200-ish onwards.

Of course, I'm sure people have been tinkering with different shaped helmets for centuries, millennia even, so who's to say?

[westwaller]

Yeah I have seen them, I think you are right there, after all some roman helmets are very similar.

If you click on the links that both Paul & Druzina posted, there is some good info.

Pauls info handily has another section below the one on kettle hats on the dates of face-plates (or barbers as I have learned they are called) appearing on medieval helmets too.

[Paul]

Of course, I'm sure people have been tinkering with different shaped helmets for centuries, millennia even, so who's to say?

I´m sure everyone´s helmet is a different shape......

[Cubs]

[Atheling]

Bloody hell, Geiger seems to be so far in the past..... I wonder if how old the fella is nowadays?? 

Darrell.

[Mr. Peabody]

He's dead.

[Cubs]

I hope he gets better.