Water Bullets and Intuitive. Guidance requested.

[Silbuster]

Does the pluck bonus for "Water Bullets" only apply to when being shot at with bullets? I ask because some of my armies do not have any bullets or things to shoot them out of. Consequently, "Water Bullets" is a pretty powerful ploy to use against them.
Water bullets: They add +2 to their Pluck Roll for as long as none of them is taken out of the game by a bullet. As soon as one of the followers is taken out then their belief evaporates, as does
the Pluck bonus.

The definition of "Intuitive" in the rule book is different from the one in the reference sheet. Which one is correct?
Intuitive: A figure with this Talent gains a bonus of +3 to its Armour rating the first time a previously unseen opponent tries to Shoot it.

[Silbuster]

My thoughts are:
1/ Water Bullets. If this gives the illusion of invulnerability against any weapon, then any weapon which punctures that invulnerability, punctures the illusion. In other words, if a figure suffering from the delusion of water bullets is taken out by anything, then water bullets no longer applies.

2/ Intuitive suffers from multiple problems. Firstly, nobody checks whether an opponent is "previously unseen" before moving it leading to much confusion and disagreement. Secondly, because the talent only survives the first shot, then the opponent shoots first using a figure with absolutely no chance of  hitting the intuitive one whether he has his +3 or not and then starts the serious shooting. "Intuition" basically means hitting the floor before the enemy pulls the trigger. You cannot do that if you are moving quickly or if you are concentrating on your own shot. So, I would suggest that "intuitive" means the figure gains +3 to its armour but only if it is moving <3" and has not yet shot this turn. So to use the talent, the figure would have to move slowly and either shoot last or not at all.

Anybody fancy voting on these ideas? It would help to make them semi-official. I think it might be helpful. To give an example of another recent dastardly occurrence during one of our games:
An enemy figure was engaged in hand-to-hand combat with three of my figures. The enemy's "inspirational" commander was situated within range with a flamethrower and shot the group! Given that some armies are commanded by individuals with no honour whatsoever, then this is feasible. However, I pointed out that, in this case, the commander could no longer be considered "inspirational" by anybody on his own side. I also suggested that any figure shot at by their own side should take an additional -1 to their pluck role owing to a certain discouragment setting in. What do you reckon?

[Conquistador]

My thoughts are:
1/ Water Bullets. If this gives the illusion of invulnerability against any weapon, then any weapon which punctures that invulnerability, punctures the illusion. In other words, if a figure suffering from the delusion of water bullets is taken out by anything, then water bullets no longer applies.

2/ Intuitive suffers from multiple problems. Firstly, nobody checks whether an opponent is "previously unseen" before moving it leading to much confusion and disagreement. Secondly, because the talent only survives the first shot, then the opponent shoots first using a figure with absolutely no chance of  hitting the intuitive one whether he has his +3 or not and then starts the serious shooting. "Intuition" basically means hitting the floor before the enemy pulls the trigger. You cannot do that if you are moving quickly or if you are concentrating on your own shot. So, I would suggest that "intuitive" means the figure gains +3 to its armour but only if it is moving <3" and has not yet shot this turn. So to use the talent, the figure would have to move slowly and either shoot last or not at all.

Anybody fancy voting on these ideas? It would help to make them semi-official. I think it might be helpful. To give an example of another recent dastardly occurrence during one of our games:
An enemy figure was engaged in hand-to-hand combat with three of my figures. The enemy's "inspirational" commander was situated within range with a flamethrower and shot the group! Given that some armies are commanded by individuals with no honour whatsoever, then this is feasible. However, I pointed out that, in this case, the commander could no longer be considered "inspirational" by anybody on his own side. I also suggested that any figure shot at by their own side should take an additional -1 to their pluck role owing to a certain discouragment setting in. What do you reckon?

1.  Bullet specific effect.   It means nothing if someone dies by arrow, melee weapon, or Martial Artist skill.  I would think that a non-firearm force would not worry about it's use.  It would be a wasted use of Mystic Powers.

2.  "Gentleman's Agreement" suggests disputed rules be settled  by a die roll, IIRC, then discussed and agreed on before another game.

Voting?  Semi-Official?  No thanks, what ever some other group decides is not binding in any manner on the gaming by my local groups.

Sounds a bit 'over-scienced' IMO, YMMV.  Of course such a decision that takes away an opponent's strength would work to your advantage, would it not?  I am sure you are very objective in this matter, of course.

Gracias,

Glenn

[Irishrover13]

I agree with Glenn, this is a gentlemans game and the rules cover those situations well enough for me. If you want to make house rules for your group go nuts but I for one will not use "semi" anything sorry.

[Silbuster]

1/

1.  Bullet specific effect.   It means nothing if someone dies by arrow, melee weapon, or Martial Artist skill.

That's certainly one of the options. However, 18 points is very expensive for such limited protection. I think I'll suggest that it applies to all weapons but that it is lost with the first figure lost irrespective of the agent employed.

2/ The lack of a good definition for intuition is a bit of shame. It represents a sixth sense on the battlefield and is worthy of a good representation in the game. As it stands, if a figure is listed with "intuition", I just replace it with a different 5 point talent.

[Craig]

1. Water Bullets
The Mystic’s followers believe themselves to be invincible. They add +2 to their Pluck rolls until one of them is taken out of the game by a bullet. As soon as this happens, their belief evaporates and they all lose the Pluck bonus.

This talent was initially envisaged as one to be used by primitive armies against those with lots of modern firearms. Their faith giving them extra courage until their leader's fine words prove to be worthless.
However, in a situation where the opponents are not well furnished with firearms I would recommend you allow the death of any man by an enemy's weapon to make this belief evaporate. Otherwise it would indeed be too powerful.

2. Intuition
And hereby lies a problem between the rules and the reference sheet, to wit:

Intuitive [Rules]
A figure with this Talent gains a +3 bonus to its Armour the first time it is shot at during the game.

Intuitive [Reference sheet]
A figure with this Talent gains a bonus of +3 to its Armour rating the first time a previously unseen opponent tries to Shoot it.

The reference sheet refers to an earlier version of the rules and didn't get updated when we fixed the issue with the original version. The KISS principle was applied, but not carried over to the reference sheet.

We are currently working on an all new reference sheet, integrating all the goodness from SDRS, and it will be rectified in that.