Emergency Summoning of the Brethren Court - the future of LotHS is at stake!

[joroas]

To be honest, I was initially very keen on the LotOW book, but I was a bit disappointed by the supplements. Both seemed like 3-4 pages of reall meat with a lot of garnish. Nice, but not value for money IMO.

Especially the last one, lot of pages on periods you could play, without much information to actually do them.  A bit of a wasted opportunity.

[gunhawk]

There really is no need for an expansion.  Everything is covered in the LOTHS book.  The rest would just be scenarios and minor ad-ons.  I've seen this with other disappointing expansions to rules sets that I wish I had never bought.  We can do mods and add-ons ourselves.  They don't have to be "official" to be good.

[Argonor]

After my last larrupping, I'm wary of chipping in here, but think what this tells us is that GW are in trouble.

They've dropped from a £13.5M pre-tax profit in 2005 to a £3M pre-tax loss last year. They slashed their dividend by 75%. Their share price has collapsed from £8.00 GBP in 2005 to as low as 116 pence a little while ago. In part this is due to the general woes of the stock market, but GW's share performance is significantly underperforming the market as a whole, which tells you that analysts and major investors see problems now and troubles ahead.

I told you, they crashed and burned with Apocalypse. Totally wrong assessment of a market that's going in the opposite direction with more and more small-scale/skirmish games. AND the ever re-cycling of 2-3 games without coming up with any real novelties...

[Argonor]

Sounds to me like it's time to work out your own expansion material.  Develop new character choices, write your own scenarios.  Prove we don't need no stinking GW!

I'm actually thinking of doing some Romans vs. Gauls (combining with other ancients along the way)... making up some stats based on LotR, then doing something like the Battle Companies to slowly build up some forces worhty of an adaption of the War in Middle-Earth fan ruleset.

[Gluteus Maximus]

I told you, they crashed and burned with Apocalypse. Totally wrong assessment of a market that's going in the opposite direction with more and more small-scale/skirmish games. AND the ever re-cycling of 2-3 games without coming up with any real novelties...

Hmm, well the other day I was given a hint from a reliable source that a news of a new LOTR expansion is due around December and to make sure I had lots of figures painted up ready for it. I asked if it was rules for a large-scale game [as opposed to the current skirmish scale] and received a broad grin in response. I was also told that figures etc for the Hobbit film are already well underway.

Will this be both enough and in time to halt the demise that Cap'n Blood predicts?

I hope so, because even with their gross unpopularity in many quarters, I genuinely believe there is a place for GW, even if I don't agree with all their practices. LOTR, Warhammer Historical etc have made them more than just a place for spotty oiks to spend their parents' hard-earned cash. Expensive as they are, the figures are usually of very high quality and a joy to paint.

I agree that Apocalypse was a bad idea - it's just not feasible for most people to buy, build, paint and find space to game with this system. Every game I have seen is just a slugfest, with as many figures, tanks etc piled [literally!] onto the table as possible, with no maneuvering or tactical thinking. Even the average 13 year old will soon tire of this sort of game. Anyway, I thought that large-scale 40k games was what the "Epic" scale was for.......

[Captain Blood]

Hmmm. I'd be extremely dubious about the suggestion that figures for the Hobbit films are well underway at GW, given that the two films (scheduled for release in 2011 and 2012) are not even in serious pre-production yet.
I saw a webchat with Peter Jackson and Guillermo Del Toro (who is directing) a couple of months ago, and they were still very much at the initial concept stages for creature design and wardrobe.
I don't think GW are in on this process!

[Gluteus Maximus]

Hmmm. I'd be extremely dubious about the suggestion that figures for the Hobbit films are well underway at GW, given that the two films (scheduled for release in 2011 and 2012) are not even in serious pre-production yet.
I saw a webchat with Peter Jackson and Guillermo Del Toro (who is directing) a couple of months ago, and they were still very much at the initial concept stages for creature design and wardrobe.
I don't think GW are in on this process!

You're probably correct 

Apologies for the crossed-out text, BTW - I don't know how that happened, as it looked fine in my preview 

[Super_Gibbon]

Sounds to me like it's time to work out your own expansion material.  Develop new character choices, write your own scenarios.  Prove we don't need no stinking GW!

I'm actually thinking of doing some Romans vs. Gauls (combining with other ancients along the way)... making up some stats based on LotR, then doing something like the Battle Companies to slowly build up some forces worhty of an adaption of the War in Middle-Earth fan ruleset.

Argonor, I've been wanting to do something like that for a long time. I love 28mm ancients but I have no desire to play WAB. If you ever get it going please post all the details. LOTR Battle Companies are a great way to play games.

[Argonor]

Sounds to me like it's time to work out your own expansion material.  Develop new character choices, write your own scenarios.  Prove we don't need no stinking GW!

I'm actually thinking of doing some Romans vs. Gauls (combining with other ancients along the way)... making up some stats based on LotR, then doing something like the Battle Companies to slowly build up some forces worhty of an adaption of the War in Middle-Earth fan ruleset.

Argonor, I've been wanting to do something like that for a long time. I love 28mm ancients but I have no desire to play WAB. If you ever get it going please post all the details. LOTR Battle Companies are a great way to play games.

Okies - I'll hopefully get started this fall/winter. I have a VERY large batch of Foundry Celts (worth appr. £150 back in the mid-90's) lying around, and the recent Romans/Celts hype by Warlord and Wargames Factory has made my fingers itch...

It simply cannot take that long to do some quick rules... an Imperial Roman Legionaire can be based on a Warrior of Gondor, for instance.... Then add some rules for the Pilum... 

Maybe I should look at it tonight, actually - if I get something  written up, I can post it or others to comment/elaborate on 

[TJSKI]

Being the author of LotHS I have watched this thread for awhile & I applaud fsultana for the effort, but it looks like, for the time being that I will not be expanding the LotHS book.

It is not because I do not want too, I actually had plans to do another book (working title was to be Shipwrecked) which would have add a few more crew types (Chinese, Corsairs) as well as nationalities for the Navy Crew (French, Dutch, Spanish). I also wanted to focus more on a map based campaign as well as adding other scenarios and fleshing out the Ship Wright points as well as adding cool things like fires onboard ships.

I too was disappointed in how Showdown (for LotOW) was put together & I did not want to have the same thing for LotHS book. But it looks like Warhammer Historical is only looking for online articles at this time & does not want to commit to another book, so for the time being there will be only one book which is currently out.

I love the fact that so many folks have enjoyed playing LotHS & also that so many folks can see the potential for using the rules in other systems. In fact my local game group has been using the Legends formatt for pulp gaming as well as some Zombie and viking raid games. There really is no limit to what you can do with it.

So if anything changes I will let you all know & If Shipwreck does see the light of day, than I will be comming here for painted figures like I did for the first book.

Tim Kulinski

[twrchtrwyth]

@Argonor.
Discussion on using LOTR for Romans and Celts. There's also a file in the files section named Rome, it's right at the bottom of the first page.
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/LOTRvariants/message/666
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/LOTRvariants/message/623

[TJSKI]

I too was disappointed in how Showdown (for LotOW) was put together & I did not want to have the same thing for LotHS book. But it looks like Warhammer Historical is only looking for online articles at this time & does not want to commit to another book, so for the time being there will be only one book which is currently out.

I feel that I need to clarify this statement, When I said the above, this was not an attack against Mark Latham and his fine work he did on the whole LotOW books, heck he is one reason why I wrote LotHS. Showdown is a good book, but it could have been much much more & I know what mark went through doing this book. So yes I am disappointed in the size of the book, but the quality is still there and Mark did the best job he could with it.

And yes I hope Mark Latham forgives me & understands this is not an attack on his work, heck I know about folks attacking your work now.

Tim Kulinski

[Lowtardog]

I too was disappointed in how Showdown (for LotOW) was put together & I did not want to have the same thing for LotHS book. But it looks like Warhammer Historical is only looking for online articles at this time & does not want to commit to another book, so for the time being there will be only one book which is currently out.

I feel that I need to clarify this statement, When I said the above, this was not an attack against Mark Latham and his fine work he did on the whole LotOW books, heck he is one reason why I wrote LotHS. Showdown is a good book, but it could have been much much more & I know what mark went through doing this book. So yes I am disappointed in the size of the book, but the quality is still there and Mark did the best job he could with it.

And yes I hope Mark Latham forgives me & understands this is not an attack on his work, heck I know about folks attacking your work now.

Tim Kulinski

I am sure he didnt take it as such

[richarDISNEY]

So if GW isnt gunna support the LotHS, then is it free game to do other factions and countries, and post them on the Yahoo grooup?

Also Tim, is there any chance you could post up your notes that you mention on the group and give us home players a starting point on how to expand the game with homebrew rules?

That would really help!

[Furt]

Also Tim, is there any chance you could post up your notes that you mention on the group and give us home players a starting point on how to expand the game with homebrew rules?

I know this is a big ask - seeings that u did intend on getting this published and all - but I second that request. It appears WH will not extend this line.

Sorry Tim I did try....