T&T First Impressions and Questions

[Furt]

My group played T&T last night for the very first time. Our first impressions of the rules were very good and it was well received by all. Everyone loved the Initiative and Actions card rules and felt it brought a bit more strategy to a skirmish type game. Overall the rules played fast and were simple to learn, although we played a fairly simple scenario. I would recommend them to any group looking for something a little bit different from what's currently out there. Good job guys on a great ruleset - keep the supplements flowing!

Of course there were a few queries, as there are with any "new" anything. Excuse the long post and here goes....

Example 1: 8 soldiers of Red unit are behind a low wall (hard cover) and 2 are left in the open. All of Blue unit shoots at Red unit, hitting 4 times and managing to kill 3 of them. Red unit's player removes from the game the 2 soldiers without cover and another 1 behind the wall. The 1 behind the wall receives no benefit from the cover. My players found this a little troublesome - is cover ignored in this case for simplicity?

Example 2: 8 soldiers of Red unit are hidden behind a building (no LoS to enemy) and 2 are left in the open. All of Blue unit shoots at Red unit, hitting 4 times. Regardelss of the number of hits only 2 soldiers of Red unit can be targetted. Is this correct? What about if 2 soldiers of Red unit blocked the LoS of Blue unit to the rest of Red's soldiers. Once the 2 soldiers are removed as casualties could Blue claim more hits because he now has a clear LoS to the rest of the unit?

Example 3: Red unit is shooting at Blue unit. 5 of Red unit's soldiers measure medium range to a single Blue soldier ahead of his unit. 5 Red soldiers measure long range to the same enemy soldier. Do half of Red unit shoot with medium range penalties and the others with long?

Example 4: Both Red and Blue play charge/close combat actions. Red has a higher Initiative so charges. A fierce melee insues forcing a solidly beaten Blue to flee. It is now Blue's action, but the last thing they want to do is charge back at the Red unit. Even though they no longer made the charge distance I ruled they forgo their action - would any agree?

Example 5: Red unit stands in the open 20 inches away from Blue unit. At the 10 inch mark between them is a low jumble of rocks. Should cover count for both units, even though neither unit shelters up against it?

The biggest debate arose over equal Initiative actions - that is when two units act simultaneously because their Initiative scores are equal. Maybe this is a less common occurance in larger games but it popped up frequently in this one. I since have read the amended rules available as a free download, but at the time this is what occured.

Unit A chose "shoot" as it's action and unit B chose "move and shoot". Both units were interacting with eachother. I ruled that unit B would get to move before unit A could fire as the rules state all movement happens before shooting. The owner of unit A agreed, but argued that his unit should at least be able to shoot at unit B first, seeing that they were standing there ready to shoot while unit B moved off. I pointed out the heavy penalty for moving and firing, thinking that was cost enough. Although we let the ranged combat happen simultaneously as well, I do tend to agree he has a point. Other combinations come to mind too. For example shoot and fast move - should a unit ready to shoot at an enemy wait to have their shot after the enemy unit has moved the entire distance or just some of the distance? This could alter range penalties.

A solution we thought up on the fly could be the that "single action types" preceed over "double action types". For example "shoot" (a single type action) beats the second part of the "move and shoot" (a double type action). So a unit will move before shot at, but it's own shots will come after it's enemy has fired, because it has already moved. Likewise "fast move" (a double type action) allows the unit to move 6 inches before it's enemy can "shoot", then it completes it's extra move (2d6 inches). In this case maybe a "shoot and move" action could be included, so a unit could shoot before it moves, instead of the other way around. Just food for thought.

[Driscoles]

Hi,

thanks for that post. I will reply the complete post later. Iam having a football game now and Iam short on time. Just one quick note to actions at the same time.

This happens if both units have the same Initiative / Quality

If you cant agree who moves first pls check the following :
Which unit contains a hero in it
which one has a leader
which unit has suppression marker
If all is equal pls roll a die 6

So...the unit with the hero moves first
the unit with the leader moves first
the unit with less or no supp. marker moves first.

More later
Björn

[Driscoles]

Example 1:
Please use common sense in this one here. We have a special rule for cover. Small Arms vs physical cover. Just give the guys behind the wall a +1 Bonus on the damage roll.

Example 2:
Part one of your question is correct. You can only wound what you see.

 Iam not sure if I really get the 2nd part of your question. Figures do not block line of sight to other figures if they belong to the same unit. If you see a unit and all figures are a legal target you can fire at all of them.

Example 3:
To make it simple you measure from unit to unit. I`ve seen people measuring from the closest to the closest or from the center to the center. And pick the range you measured. Pls feel free and choose what suits you best.

Example 4:
In this case the unit that lost its melee is either destroyed.
- Loosing close combat and morale check ( or maybe wiped out to the last man )
or
- forced to retreat ( loosing melee but the morale check succesful ) if forced to retreat that unit moves immediately 2d6 + 6" away from the winning unit. The actually chosen action is wasted.

Pls keep in mind to keep track of suppression  during close combat. The effect will happen after close combat.

Example 5:
Well, actually not. We play it this way if lots of terrain is in the way.

Your Initiative questions :
Please check the free download rules here :
http://www.triumph-tragedy.de/downloads/T&T_New_Rules_04_06_08.pdf

So, I hope I could help you a little bit.
If you have more questions please post them here.

Cheers
Björn

[Furt]

Thanks for the reply.

Another couple of questions.

Does the +1 for short range apply to every ranged weapon? So does a pistol have a +2 at short range?

Is a unit reduced to a Hero and a soldier affected by the "Last Man Standing" rule?

[Driscoles]

Hello,

1. No
2. No, the Hero belongs to the Unit so the Unit consists of 2 men. In case the Hero leaves the Unit the remaining soldier must make a last man standing check.

A hero in a unit is an interesting tactics. He makes the unit much more valuable but in case of a lost close combat the hero can be captured very easily by your oponent.

Greetings
Björn

[Westfalia Chris]

Does the +1 for short range apply to every ranged weapon? So does a pistol have a +2 at short range?

To be more precise, the actual weapons tables give the definitive modifiers. This part of the general shooting modifiers table is a bit of a leftover from a previous development phase, but is accurate for the majority of squad firearms (ie, carbines, rifles, machineguns, jezzail and elephant gun). It is NOT cumulative with the weapons tables.