Why aint there a Independent fantasy magazine?

[shandy]

I agree with maxxon - there is lots of free stuff on the internet, but for me, that does not substitute a good magazine. I would have payed for The Ancible (I donated something for every issue via PayPal), I really liked it and I was sad it went under. As I'v already said, there is no substitute for good editorial work. Magazine editors merge different things - things I wouldn't have looked for on the Internet because I didn't know that I would be interested in them - and deliver them to you. That's not something I want to miss.

I think this whole topic touches also on budget allocation. I for example don't make the calculation that by getting information free on the internet I have more money to spend on figures. I tend to be a disciplined buyer when it comes to figures, and when I'm in a project, I don't need any more figures. So the hobby budget goes into other things, mainly books - I guess 50% of my hobby budget is spent on book (including mags and rules, but mostly historical). The rest is divided between figures, paints, tools and material for building scenery.
So for me, the question of buying a magazine is not a zero sum game. The amount of information available on the internet does not influence my decision. The quality of the magazine does.

[Tactalvanic]

I think Shandy has brought us back to the main issues stopping us getting one.

Finance and marketability.

If they cannot make money, profit, from it, in enough quantity, then no-one with the capability to do it, will do it.

It would be nice - to subscribe to a real mag again, but I don't see it happening.

The hobby would be far richer for it, as has been seen in the past when some where available.

The history mags are good, I enjoy the occasion browse, but not really my thing (maybe that will change who knows), and yes they survive quite nicely on a broader range of material and a larger base of customers/support that like the content they provide. Even if they do regurgitate items on occasion - others are far more guilty of that in any case.

Maxxon is very correct about the company specific  mags to - they have no  appeal, and are of no real interest to hobbyists with a far broader range of interests  because of it.

Thats also why I stopped bothering with them. Want more not less to experience, well past the age where I want to just do one company's version of the hobby.

So currently, what I find for myself is enough, perhaps because it has to be, and sadly perhaps because I am kind of used to it, part of the pleasure is finding new hobby related materials, games, companies etc is just that I found it myself - yay go me.

No doubt that much of it would benefit from a good editor. You get what you pay for in a sense, so quality can vary shall we say.

As Shandy mentions, we all likely would find the cash to pay out for a reasonable Priced magazine without impacting our hobby budget in the slightest.

Its surely the main problem is just getting  a company capable to pay to do it, to finance it (employees such as editors included) in the first place. That brings us back to profit again.

[maxxon]

If they cannot make money, profit, from it, in enough quantity, then no-one with the capability to do it, will do it.

Yeah, well, yes and no.

As I say on my site, I'm a self-admitted blockhead -- I write for free. I don't make a dime off my site, I don't want to make a profit. I don't run ads, I don't have partnerships, I don't even get free review copies. The quality of my output may be debatable, but at least it's out there.

I do it for the fun of it.

The reason I can do it is because it doesn't really cost me anything either. The website domain name is about $10/year, beyond that I have the line and the server anyway so I might as well put something there. As long as it doesn't get super popular (no fear of that), the bandwidth isn't really a consideration either.

But what this doesn't do, is make me stick to a deadline.

Quality content costs money to produce, especially on a deadline. Someone might do something once in while for free, but if you want them to do it regularly every Friday they'll likely want money for it.

However, new technologies offer new opportunities. We don't have to be shackled by the print and distribution costs of a print magazine.

Let me offer an analogy here:

I watch stuff on YouTube and I listen to quite a host of gaming podcasts off iTunes while I paint.

What do YouTube and iTunes have in common?

They offer a centralized subscription service. I log in, they push all the new stuff from my subscriptions to me. If I had to log in to all those sites separately to check if they have a new video or podcast available, I probably would not do it.

One of my favorite podcasts was on a hiatus for nearly a year. I didn't even notice. Once they were back on air, I just resumed getting episodes. If I had been checking an empty website all that time, I would have stopped going there. It doesn't matter if individual podcasts slip from their schedule, as long as my subscription stream as a whole keeps feeding new stuff to me.

Written content needs a similar delivery mechanism. (Web comics would benefit from that too)

If that were in place, you could probably do an electronic magazine using a large body of volunteer writers/photographers. It could make enough money to pay the editor and bandwidth etc.

Publishing an article on the Internet is pretty much like nailing it to a fence post. Some people will find it, most will not. Some people will even make a habit of checking your fence post regularly, but most will not. There's an awful lot of fence posts out there...

[Tactalvanic]

Yes but that proves the point doesn't it?

We agree the reasoning is money, profit is needed to keep it going whether a paper medium or other - its still a paid subscription in  place to service the production and receipt of the media you want to get.

Whether some or all that profit goes back into maintaining the magazine or content stream is up to the providers of the service/product as such.

Still someone has to put up that initial cash input, and then maintain the medium until its able to pay its own way, eg pay for at least itself (staff etc) if thats the model they go for.

As you point out and rightly, quality edited content, on time, on schedule, regularly, costs money.

You don't get all that from single individuals, no matter how good they are.

Yes your articles and copy are out there, and I am having a read at the moment (in between actual work), but its just another fence post compared to regularly paid for content isn't it?

I agree though its nice to have it sent to you , provided, searched, edited and packaged and given, at a small cost relative to us individually, but were in a business sense ( and it needs to be otherwise you don't get paid for what would be your assumed full time job) is the motivation - that has to be seen before someone will attempt it?

Perhaps not forever, but until someone/ or a group grabs that spot, and finds a way to make a living from it we have to find at least some of what we want ourselves, or from the links and information brought to light by others and the fence posts (like that comment) they nail it to?

[Praefectusclassis]

Good points being made here (though no, WHS doesn't ask quite that much, but it's considerable).
I'll add one from a publisher's point of view: not being a sic/fant gamer, to me the that side of wargaming seems even more fickle, and as some have said, divided than historicals. Moreover, things potentially change faster and that can be a problem from the editorial point of view. A Kickstarter for a new historical range is not a huge problem: at some point the minis are done and you put them in your review section. But with production times of a magazine being what they are, the Next Big Thing in scifi/fantasy wargaming can be here before you had time to react. Example:
If you've got a very dependable author, you can commission an article from him and have - with some to and fro - a finished, edited article in a week or two. You then need a week or so to layout the entire magazine, two weeks to get it printed (unless you do it locally and are willing to spend a lot more) and a week or two for packaging, mailing to subscribers and distribution to stores. Easy to see how the New Hotness that you commissioned that article about may have fallen on its face just after you sent the mag off to the printers and by the time it reachers your readers, it's gone, forgotten and entirely replaced by the Kickstarter that launched when it was out of your hands and is about to reach become the biggest success ever. Now you look like your editor doesn't know what's going on...

[AndrewBeasley]

Would a yearly magazine work better?

Possible crowdsource and more likely to be carried by the independent outlets rather than the big guys I would have thought.

It would have to be wide ranging due to the fickle nature of the gaming and may be hard to keep up to date in the review section but target at Christmas time and you may have a larger 'Granny for little Jimmy' market.

[Lowtardog]

Harbinger was the last magazine to try and break this and went the way of the Dodo, for all the reasons that Matakishi stated.

[maxxon]

Yes but that proves the point doesn't it?

We agree the reasoning is money, profit is needed to keep it going whether a paper medium or other - its still a paid subscription in  place to service the production and receipt of the media you want to get.

We agree that money is needed to provide content.

How much money is the issue.

I used to run a small fanzine back in early 90's, but I'm not a professional publisher. However, I have listened to A View From The Veranda and what I have gathered is this:

Miniature Wargames (12 issues/year, full color) is a commercial publication. It's not big business, but:
- it probably generates some profit for the publisher or it would have been shut down or sold off
- it pays for the print and distribution bills
- it pays for the publisher's overhead
- it pays Henry Hyde's (the editor) salary
- beyond that basically everyone else is unpaid volunteers

If you take that and subtract the print and distribution and even most of publisher's overhead you arrive at a sum that shouldn't be that much money -- especially if it doesn't have to generate a full time salary.

All the podcasters and youtubers who choose to monetize their content are generating themselves a little bit of income. In the vast majority of cases not enough to live on, but enough to keep generating quality content on a schedule.

Here's my hypothesis:

1) Content

There is room for quality content. Everything is not available for free on the Internet.

E.g. Recently I needed painting reference for WWII ships. Did I hit Google? Yes, I actually did but I couldn't find comprehensive information. Did I ask on a forum? No, even though I might have gotten some answers it probably would not have produced anything truly worth of keeping in my reference library. What I did do, I went and ordered all relevant Osprey titles. Ding, 100 euros down the drain

Personally I would volunteer my content, if a mutually beneficial arrangement (NOT money) can be found.

2) Market

I subscribed to MARS and Harbinger when they were extant. I am currently subscribing to three different historical mags. I am subscribing to a gaming web site and a podcast, though it could be argued that those are more donations than purchases.

I would pay for quality content. I would even pay just to have it selected, edited and delivered to me even if it was freely available somewhere else.

I can not believe I am alone in this.

3) Production

By leveraging modern technologies it is possible to eliminate the largest cost factors in traditional publishing, namely print and distribution costs.

By running a lean machine with reasonable expectations, it should be possible to generate enough income to pay the bills and make it worthwhile at least as a sideline for an enthusiastic hobbyists.

Heck, just being able to interview industry figures seems to plenty of incentive for most podcasters...

[Derek H]

Written content needs a similar delivery mechanism. (Web comics would benefit from that too)

It's called an RSS Feed Reader.  Using one you can pull all the new stuff from a number of blogs into a single page.

There's an example at http://www.netvibes.com/lardcentral#Lardy_Blogs

[Tactalvanic]

It's called an RSS Feed Reader.  Using one you can pull all the new stuff from a number of blogs into a single page.

There's an example at http://www.netvibes.com/lardcentral#Lardy_Blogs

Yes but only for items from sites we already know about, that might not have the quality of content thats really being looked for?

Were we seem to be here is,

"how do I get something, paid for - possibly, that tells me interesting stuff, about what i am already into, and new stuff that I might be that I don't know about already, while being consistent and regular in both quality and content"

I suspect Maxxon might agree, RSS feeds/readers from our known resources might not cut it.

Perhaps picky or being old and miserable (but its Friday! - I am at work so misery is acceptable - old is what I have no choice about)

What the post here has brought to light perhaps:

- The costs to leverage the product, and the fact they may not actually be that much.

- But also the interesting point that the printed magazine format, for this hobby and its more modern flexiblity, is maybe too dated, slow a medium?

ie it cannot keep up with the rapidity of some of the more interesting aspects, kickstarters, product change, rules and other things that pop up.

It seems that although this is something of a "small" hobbyist group, it is one with intelligence and the ability to rapidly grasp and use technology, and new tech as it becomes available to their advantage.

Or am I thinking of the pron industry?

Its a slow day, and boring techy config files to do.

Are we edging towards the idea of a subscription site, with RSS and other input/output types, regular articles, audio and video interviews - podcasts, articles etc, and a 'sort-of' paid for staffing to manage, collate, edit, audit and provide the above on a regular basis, ooh a la "sometingorothernotfoxnews.com/news/fantasystuff" - so its more believable..?

With page formating for different device types - pc/phone/tablet - online news rag as such, maybe even fantasy is just a subsection of different hobby sections, so its historical, fantasy, sci-fi, my little pony etc.

?  I may have had to much caffeine today ? 

[Lovejoy]

...though no, WHS doesn't ask quite that much, but it's considerable...

Have you any idea how much? I'd be interested in some accurate info, and I'm struggling to get it...

I was told by a publisher £20k for permanent placement (subject to sales volumes) in all stores, with a one-month featured promotion, and a colleague who was starting up a magazine was offered a 4 week trial in half of WHS stores for £5k.

Are we edging towards the idea of a subscription site, with RSS and other input/output types, regular articles, audio and video interviews - podcasts, articles etc, and a 'sort-of' paid for staffing to manage, collate, edit, audit and provide the above on a regular basis, ooh a la "sometingorothernotfoxnews.com/news/fantasystuff" - so its more believable..?

Beasts of War's Backstage option isn't far off that really...

[Praefectusclassis]

Yes, I do, being the publisher of WSS. The exact amount depends on the number of stores, the expected circulation, projected sales and yes, any 'promotion' you want to buy. You'll easily get to GBP 5000 p/y.

As to subscription models for websites: it's been tried by, say, the NY Times without treat success. If you wanted to do it for SciFant wargaming, I'd think your have an uphill struggle to convince people to pay for content already available for free elsewhere. The great advantage magazines have is that they produce a physical product. Holding something in your hand still works...

[Lovejoy]

Yes, I do, being the publisher of WSS. The exact amount depends on the number of stores, the expected circulation, projected sales and yes, any 'promotion' you want to buy. You'll easily get to GBP 5000 p/y.

Thanks for the info! So it's a variable thing, then - I suppose that makes sense, really... it's too big a bill to just stick a flat rate on. And I hadn't realized it was a yearly thing, I'd assumed it was a one-off! 

...The great advantage magazines have is that they produce a physical product. Holding something in your hand still works...

This is so true... I haven't played a historical game in years now, but still buy WSS and WI every issue. Same reason I buy print rulebooks - I still use PDFs as well, but this is a tactile hobby. We model, we paint, we game on the tabletop; all are hands-on, physical things. And I feel the same way about the written parts of my hobby.

Incidentally, Praefectusclassis, if you ever feel like adding a bit of scifant to WSS, I certainly wouldn't complain...  I've got a project coming up that is 14th century medieval England, with just a teeny bit of fantasy added - that wouldn't be too far outside the WSS brief...

[Praefectusclassis]

Yep, it's yearly and based on what WHS thinks they can get out of you / estimate what you'll sell, and it never goes down...

If you buy WSS 74, you just might find a Medieval-esque article... But for you, and all of you, if you have a good idea, please never hesitate to pitch it to Guy: editor *at* wssmagazine.com

Jasper

[Lovejoy]

Got it, and read it... and yep, I thought the 'Game of Thrones with plastics' was a great article, just enough of a historical / fantasy crossover to keep 99% of us happy. Great stuff, as usual.

WSS is still the best wargaming mag, IMHO.