Those of you who play infinity, how do you find it? What do you play?

[Major_Gilbear]

@ Elbows:

Based on your comments here and elsewhere, I doubt you'll get on with Infinity. It's complicated, has points-based force selection, has a tournament (you can thank American demand for that), and the models are specific and pricey.

Of course, you can use other models if you like (just be clear what each model is), not play in a tournament (which I don't anyway), and play the models you like - the points system is actually a double one which stops a lot of silliness. The models are priced on two main things: how hard they are to cast, and how much metal they use. Efficiency in game doesn't correlate to cost in money. Plus the rules, templates,  tokens, army lists, army building tool, and a number of terrain pieces and scenarios are all free to download.

[Major_Gilbear]

Yu Jing Faction 

What, the starter box?

[carlos13th]

Make sure you play with lots of solid buildings though, and not something that looks like a paintball arena... The game is pretty deadly and demands "full" terrain to cut down some line if sight and allow more maneuvering.

Yeah I have heard that, haven't had a chance to play with my deadzone terrain to see what I can create yet.

A couple of reasons.  I mostly find that games like Warhammer/WarMachine etc. are obviously built on getting you to buy more and more expensive models.  Ie. an expensive model is better in the game etc.  I despise "equal" games (the result of points matching), and I find that almost all games which are built with this kind of tournament-aim tend to have HORRIBLE rules, and are generally garbage.  I don't like a game which is tied to a specific model line because you end up being forced to buy certain figures etc.

If a game has a points-system and is aimed at any kind of tournament play, I lose interest 100%, immediately.  Doesn't mean I wouldn't play it at a friends house, but I refuse to buy into a big "system" like that.

It's personal opinion, but I just do not like supporting games like that.  Obviously GW is the biggest offender in that genre, but a lot of games look eerily similar so I stay away. 

Thanks for sharing. I don't think it's fair to assume that any game with points values has garbage rules though.

I see no reasons why you couldn't proxy with infinity though. That said I like their models a lot despite the cost.

Can understand you not wanting to buy into it though. I usually try to buy things that can run double duty for two or more game systems,even though I pretty much never actually play.

[Elbows]

I'm sure the rules are fine for Infinity - but most are not.  Any development aimed at tournament play immediately starts removing chance...removing random order of activation...removing random events/encounters,  removes a lot of things which I like in games.  Hence, even if the rules are solidly written, they can still be "garbage" in my opinion. 

I agree that I could probably proxy...and I could probably play the game with scenarios, ignoring points, ignoring tournament rules, ignoring min-maxxing etc.  But then, I might as well just go with a different game.  Like I said, I'm sure I'll have a chance to play some time in the future.  If so, I'll come back and post my opinion.  But on a surface level, nothing (other than a few good looking models) appeals to me about Infinity.

I do hope that new 3rd Gen. box is a good value though - that's a good way to get new blood into the game.

[chromedog]

I play and have played for about 6 1/2 years.
I have 4 armies for the game (I played 40k for over 25 years - but towards the end, it just got tiresome.

I play infinity pretty much exclusively at club level.  Tournaments can go blow a yak.
I like the models (in the armies that I have )  - this is not to say that I like ALL of them, and indeed, most months I will look at their releases and yawn. 

Most of my miniatures collection has seen use in other games apart from the rulesets they were released for - but I've also got miniatures rulebooks I've bought JUST to read and miniatures JUST to build.

Deadzone terrain can work, but also suffers from the same issues as GW stuff.  Too many holes in the wrong places.
Deadzone and Mercs don't appeal to me for different reasons.  Deadzone is TOO simple a game, and mercs has ugly models. 

40k had some nice models, but crap rules.  Infinity has some really nice models and rules that do the job for now.

I've never been a "one game for ever" gamer - and I have no doubt I won't leave infinity in the dirt, the same way I left 40k - but I'll play it whilst I wait for this other thing to come along.

[syrinx0]

I have not played infinity yet but I did pick up the new starter set at Gencon. It was $120 for 15 figures, a scenery pack, playing mat, dice a few markers and a rulebook. I mostly bought it for the miniatures but enjoyed a demo game I played.  It seemed pretty popular as they sold out of the boxed set in spite of having a full pallet of boxes on the floor. 

[Malebolgia]

Used to play in the past...but never really got into it. It just didn't feel right as a total package. The odd order system never worked out well IMO; you *can* give one monster model all orders and the rest cheerlead and are on constant overwatch. This combined with the abundance of heavy/special weapons and the Huge discrepancy between weapons means the games never felt balanced. It's mainly about the fancy toys...HMG's used to dominate all games (don't know what the current cool weapon is though) and a lot of games were also won by luck (In one game I rolled like 4 criticals...bam...4 dead enemies...yawn).

So although I like the idea of the game with the reactions, short and fast deadly games and gimmicky toys...it never felt exactly right. So we used a ton of house rules to make it work better (eg. A model can have a maximum of 2 orders per turn, luitenants 3).

But prefer Pulp Alley now

[Daeothar]

I am actually very happy with Infinity, after playing 40K and affiliated games for more than 20 years. What really pleases me is the level of tactical play, which you don't get with the other games I play(ed).

We used to play Necromunda as our go-to Scifi skirmish game and I've liked it for decades (still do). But the mechanics really lack the depth and (dare I say it?) realism I always wanted in my games.

With Infinity though, you do get that depth, once you get over the 40K mindset. You don't charge an enemy over open ground to get into CC, in fact you don't stay out in the open period, unless you want to get your models back into the foam at rocket speed.

Granted; the rules do take some getting used to and do seem complex at first, but once you have a couple of games under the belt, they start to make sense. A lot of the added complexity comes from the more specialized units and gear, which you don't have to use when you start out. A starter box can be played as is, and you can add whichever unit you like afterwards.

And that's another thing I like about the game; as opposed to what some others are saying, I have yet to see a game dominating unit. They all have their pro's and cons, and in my experience, you can play a good game with any combination of minis, as long as you know how to use them effectively. That is not to say that there isn't some useful synergy between certain units, but overall, you can basically pick what you like and make it work.

Yes; certain heavy weapons are very powerful, but that's in their name already, isn't it? And also, there is a limit to the amount of special gear and heavy weapons in a list, so loading up on heavy weapons only is not only impossible, it would also restrict you in other areas.

As for TAGs (the large remote mecha like units); they too are not the super units they first appear. I very recently acquired my first one, and while it did a very good job, it was not the crush-everything-in-its-path-destruction-machine(-of-death) my opponent and myself expected it to be.

One thing that speaks against the game going the 40K way in regard to codex-creep and flavours of the month, is the fact that all units for all armies are in the same rulebook. Which ensures that they are as balanced as they can be. Of course there are campaign books and the like (2 so far in the 2nd edition of the rules), which add units for each faction, but those can be used mixed with the units in the previous books without them being significantly stronger, even though there are of course new abilities and equipment introduced.

I would say that Infinity is a well balanced game, with a 'different' ruleset that takes getting used to. It forces you to play very tactically, but it does require a lot of LOS blocking terrain to get the most out of it. Overall, I'd call it my favourite miniature game at the moment, and I'm confident it will take quite a while before I will have used/experienced every nuance of the rules and special equipment. I only play it in friendly games. I can see it work in tournaments, but that's not my scene, and the rules certainly work in a beer and pretzels environment.

The miniatures are, for the most, absolutely stunning, if not exactly cheap (but then; you only need between 8 to 16 or so models per force), and the game has a very distinct anime-ish look and feel, which you either like or don't like. You can make every miniature in the lines work, even though there obviously is some variation in cost effectiveness between units. Still, apart from thematic reasons, there are no real must-have units.

One cause for concern though is the apparent size-creep in the Infinity miniatures; the more recent sculpts are distinctively taller and thinner than the older miniatures. Also, the very first sculpts were more heroic in their proportions, while the line very soon after started to become more realistically proportioned. Most of my minis are from the intermediate period, so not heroic, but not too tall either. those mix well with the now OOP GOT line from Antenociti. I've also observed that some sculpts disappear from the official website sometimes, to be replaced by new sculpts, without prior warning.

As for what I play; I set out to collect a Haqqislam army, as I liked their background the best, but for some reason I ended up playing Pan Oceania first. Which also still is my current army, as I still need to assemble my Haqqs... But I also feel the draw of Nomads, which was my second army choice.

And even though my regular opponent really dislikes the Alien factions, I could see myself doing up a Shassvastii force eventually too...

[Major_Gilbear]

I'm sure the rules are fine for Infinity - but most are not.  Any development aimed at tournament play immediately starts removing chance...removing random order of activation...removing random events/encounters,  removes a lot of things which I like in games.  Hence, even if the rules are solidly written, they can still be "garbage" in my opinion. 

Funny you should mention that... One of the stated goals of 3E is to provide that "slight chance" in as many situations as possible. We might be talking only 5%, but it's there!

The sorts of rules whereby you can attack your opponent's model(s) and they can't react have been whittled down/removed from the game.

As far as I can tell, attacks from behind a model still have a chance of killing it without a reaction (unless it survives, in which case it can turn around), but that's a hard-won situation to be in.

The way camouflage has been tweaked as well is designed to make things simpler, and to avoid the receiving model having to survive a full attack before it can retaliate - now the shots are exchanged simultaneously, but the camo troop has a "surprise" bonus modifier to weight things their way somewhat.

Another thing that was mentioned in 3E is that there is a maximum value for modifiers to stack to - you can no longer get a bonus/penalty exceeding a sum total of +/-12. This also helps to ensure that very specialised troops do not get to stack things so one-sidedly that no chance of reaction is possible (so even if highly unfavourable, at least you have some chance in many cases!).

I am sure that none of these things will change you mind much/at all, but hopefully it might encourage some occasional participation in the game with your group.  

[...]But on a surface level, nothing (other than a few good looking models) appeals to me about Infinity.

Understandable - we all like different things.

[...]I do hope that new 3rd Gen. box is a good value though - that's a good way to get new blood into the game.

Well... It's good value in that you effectively get everything past the two starter forces "free". But it's still expensive, and it's not the most newbie-friendly starter box out there either (the shower of tiny metal parts sees to that!).

Tournaments can go blow a yak.

Agreed!

It seemed pretty popular as they sold out of the boxed set in spite of having a full pallet of boxes on the floor.  

That was probably helped by the fact that the two starters in the set have been eagerly awaited for years now (along with Combined Army, they were the only ones waiting a resculpt - those sets date back to before there was even a physical rulebook for Infinity!)

Used to play in the past...but never really got into it. It just didn't feel right as a total package. The odd order system never worked out well IMO; you *can* give one monster model all orders and the rest cheerlead and are on constant overwatch.

That will still be the case. Personally, the whole game is an abstraction anyway, and I don't mind the way Orders work. My friend however does agree with your point of view.

The main issue I see though is that with the very open way that ARO (Automatic Reaction Orders) system works, it is very hard for the active player to get much of an advantage without being able to pump resources into a few models if they want to.

[...] The abundance of heavy/special weapons and the Huge discrepancy between weapons means the games never felt balanced. It's mainly about the fancy toys...HMG's used to dominate all games (don't know what the current cool weapon is though)

This is pretty true - HMGs were beasts and Sniper Rifles were hard to justify for example. Not to say that you couldn't defeat the weapons/models carrying them, but they were an obvious choice when you had one.

The new edition has tweaked a lot of the weapon ranges and the modifiers in order to give each weapon a role/slot in which it can excel. Even the crappy pistol has been buffed a little so that as a weapon of last resort it's not so hopeless. Time and play will show whether this will make a difference.

[...]A lot of games were also won by luck (In one game I rolled like 4 criticals...bam...4 dead enemies...yawn).

Still the case - many people liked that aspect of the game (see my comments to Elbows above), and it allows lowly grunts a chance to destroy heavy infantry (which in turn is a good reason to avoid pumping too many orders into one model unless you have positioned it excellently). In fact, HMGs were deliberately subsidised for cheap grunts for exactly this purpose.

___________________________________________________

Personally, the changes I am most looking forward to are:

1) New weapon range bands/tweaks

2) Clear streamlined rules for skills

3) Clear statement in the rules of the specific sequence of actions of things like Orders and the timing of action resolution

4) Clear streamlined rules for close combat

5) Clear streamlined rules for hacking

6) Clear streamlined rules for terrain

7) Clear streamlined rules for retreat

[hubbabubba]

How do I find infinity: increasingly expensive.

The minis are now way over priced IMO. Yes, many of them are lovely, and they have become the bar by which I judge other models, but there's no way I can justify the pricing, so i guess I'll pass on most of the stuff from now on. 50 euros for four models as in the case of the new wolfmen box is too steep for me. plus the range is very inconsistant in terms of scale.

The game plays ok, there's always been too many inconsistancies and poorly written grey areas. Personally, form what I've heard about 3rd ed, it's not going to get any better, probably more complicated instead of more streamlined which is what I think it needs.

Biggest turn off for me is the tournament mindset of all the folks around here, it's just no fun at all to play against most of them.

Pulp alley sounds like a much better set, although I'm yet to try it myself.

[Major_Gilbear]

Biggest turn off for me is the tournament mindset of all the folks around here, it's just no fun at all to play against most of them.

After following the progress of your forces for Infinity on these boards, I am sad to read this - I only wish you were closer, as I'd be delighted to play a game against you (our games are pretty rules-strict, but we are very relaxed and gentlemanly with each other in all areas of the gameplay, and regularly assist each other during a game. In fact, one observer who saw us playing Twilight Imperium stated that we should rename it Tweed Imperium based on our playstyle!).

As for buying newer sculpts, allow me to quote my friend:

"They can fuck off if they think I'm buying all those fucking models again". 

[Too Bo Coo]

I think I'm down for the new box set as well.  It looks like a decent enough deal, but I'll wait to see what the reviews are before plunking down more cash.  I have some 2nd hand minis of various factions to paint up in the meantime.

[Major_Gilbear]

@ Too Bo Coo:

Unless you want the models in the box, I wouldn't bother with it:

- You will get the rules for free online anyway

- The chap who designed the mat and terrain has free versions on his website (along with more) here.

- If you really want the pre-made terrain, CB have confirmed that the terrain from the set will be available separately in the future - this might be a cheaper option than getting the set with models you don't really want.

[Too Bo Coo]

@ Too Bo Coo:

Unless you want the models in the box, I wouldn't bother with it:

- You will get the rules for free online anyway

- The chap who designed the mat and terrain has free versions on his website (along with more) here.

- If you really want the pre-made terrain, CB have confirmed that the terrain from the set will be available separately in the future - this might be a cheaper option than getting the set with models you don't really want.

Cheers for the heads up! 

The starter sets look ok at 40 euro or so for 6 minis, so that may not be a bad path then.  I was also thinking about using some of the 12 I have to make up a Merc force.

[Major_Gilbear]

The starter sets look ok at 40 euro or so for 6 minis, so that may not be a bad path then.  I was also thinking about using some of the 12 I have to make up a Merc force.

Shop around, as I'm sure we don't pay 40E for a starter set in the UK - more like 30-32E from many independent online retailers.

Also, I'm not sure Mercs will survive in 3E as they are now.

CB have confirmed that there will be some Merc companies coming (the equivalent of Sectorial forces), but I think they will probably not allow the mix-n-match approach there is now.

Back when the game had fewer models, it was okay, but there are so many models to choose from now, I think it's impossible to balance reasonably. If you and your friends are happy to keep using Merc forces built like that, then that's fine, but I think you might struggle with pick-up games if you game in a store or such. Personally, I'd probably be fine with it as long as there was no obvious min-maxing.

Alternatively, keep an eye on ebay or such; you can often get second hand models for cheap if you're not fussy about whether you get the latest sculpt or not.

Another option for some factions is just to supplement other manufacturer's models in your collection that are suitable. Ariadna is the obvious candidate faction for this, but others are possible. In fact, this might be a smart route if you are still wavering on the game before you drop a chunk of change of the official models.

What models/factions do you have?