Bigger Game Rules

[FifteensAway]

So, I'm looking for rules that allow a bit more of an experience of the Old West than seems to be typical.  And I don't think what I'm looking for exists.  Thus what I'm looking for are ideas and mechanisms that can be mixed together to create what I seek.  Mind you, I'm not looking for role playing rules, not at all.  What, then, am I looking for?

Well, I want a set of rules that permit going from planning an action (bank robbery, cattle rustling, train robbery, stage hold up, off reservation raid, horse stealing, you name it), gathering a crew, moving forward against a target, getting away from the target, attempting to evade the posse, shooting it out with the posse if they catch up in time. All this with miniatures on a gaming table.  The goal is something more than a quick shoot-em-up skirmish game.  Has no real appeal for me.  We're not talking building individual player status here; more like an adventure that continues onwards and might even develop into a small scale campaign.  Don't forget that the party planning the action might be the posse going after the criminal element or the cavalry planning to track down a band that has jumped the reservation.

Naturally, if someone's already created such rules then I'm all ears folks.  How say you all?

[NickNascati]

Six Gun Soundfrom Two Hour Wargames sounds like what you are looking for.

[FifteensAway]

Nick, thanks for the reply but already got the negative "nod" from Ed at THW.  Those rules don't quite go in the right direction, apparently - though maybe worth acquiring for ideas.

[NickNascati]

That is odd, as SGS has a full blown campaign system built into it.  If you want larger sized games, maybe tinker with The Sword and the Flame?

[robh]

May sound like an odd choice, but take a look at the "Wreck Age" rules from Hyacinth. Aimed at Post Apoc the mechanisms would work and being a fairly low tech setting there are enough similar weapon stats already to give you a start.

Designed as an rpg lite, at the core it is a game about building a small gang, equipping them and developing them through on the table skirmish games. It has some aspects of character building and skill improvement based around a series of traits and abilities.

http://wreck-age.net/

The developers are active on the forum so you can ask any questions and discuss your idea directly with them if you want.

[Conquistador]

So, I'm looking for rules that allow a bit more of an experience of the Old West than seems to be typical.  And I don't think what I'm looking for exists.  Thus what I'm looking for are ideas and mechanisms that can be mixed together to create what I seek.  Mind you, I'm not looking for role playing rules, not at all.  What, then, am I looking for?

Well, I want a set of rules that permit going from planning an action (bank robbery, cattle rustling, train robbery, stage hold up, off reservation raid, horse stealing, you name it), gathering a crew, moving forward against a target, getting away from the target, attempting to evade the posse, shooting it out with the posse if they catch up in time. All this with miniatures on a gaming table.  The goal is something more than a quick shoot-em-up skirmish game.  Has no real appeal for me.  We're not talking building individual player status here; more like an adventure that continues onwards and might even develop into a small scale campaign.  Don't forget that the party planning the action might be the posse going after the criminal element or the cavalry planning to track down a band that has jumped the reservation.

Naturally, if someone's already created such rules then I'm all ears folks.  How say you all?

I am a little confused by "... We're not talking building individual player status here; more like an adventure that continues onwards and might even develop into a small scale campaign..."

You are not "...I'm not looking for role playing rules..."

You are not looking for " ...a quick shoot-em-up skirmish game.  Has no real appeal for me..."

Yet, "... I want a set of rules that permit going from planning an action... gathering a crew, moving forward against a target, getting away from the target, attempting to evade the posse, shooting it out with the posse if they catch up in time. All this with miniatures on a gaming table... We're not talking building individual player status here; more like an adventure that continues onwards and might even develop into a small scale campaign..."

Are you looking for something like Pulp Alley only in a different decade/setting (late 1800s rather than early 1900s) for your gaming?

I really don't have a clear idea on what you want.  It doesn't seem like you want company sized actions (100+/- men, not the IHMN "companies,") and you don't want skirmish, and you don't want RPG/RPG Lite...

Can you clarify what you do want a bit, please?

Believe me, I am not being critical, as some of my threads reflect I sometimes don't know what I don't know but, just like in Art and Pornography, I know I want an answer and I will know when it is the "right" answer" (the recent 15 mm Indians/Sikhs thing.)

Gracias,

Glenn

[FifteensAway]

Sure, Glenn, let me give it a go.

Perhaps it is best to start with understanding the size of my collection, in 15 mm by the way.  I have 360 mounted indians (will add 24), 288 foot iniidans, and about 240 villagers with some of the last to create a mobile village with travois.  The majority of these are northern plains but I also have a nice contingent of apaches.  Have three dozen teepees to create the more sedate villages.

I have one full cavalry regiment of 147 figures plus an ad hoc regiment of three battalions that adds up to the same plus a supply convoy of wagons, mule train, and remount herd, plus a couple of gatling guns with limbers and crews.  And then a smaller force to man a fort and small amount of infantry.  All the cavalry have dismounts.

Plenty of casualty figures for both of the above groupings and the below as well.

I have about 720 mostly - but not entirely - unarmed civilians for populating the main planned town and the two smaller towns: the northwest railhead town and the southwest mining/trade center.  I know that seems excessive but I like my world's to look more like reality than Hollywood.  Not that Hollywood doesn't influence my gaming - my favorite Old West movies are Hallelujah Trail and Paint Your Wagon which both inform my goal but, then, so does John Wayne's Chisum.

The west being a mobile place, I have 48 wagons which includes a few carts and plenty of horses and oxen to pull them around.  Could use a purpose built hearse with some 'circus' horses to pull it but have a stand in for now.  Four of those are stage coaches - competing lines maybe.  Also have some trains, half a dozen locomotives and plenty of cars (still need to add some more).  Want a passenger train, a general freight train, a stock train, an army special, and a posse special plus a few cars to park near the freight yard and its adjacent stock yard.  Plenty of stock to populate that as well, longhorns and others, and other domestic stock for the farms and ranches.  Wild life, too, more than one hundred buffalo, pronghorn antelope, deer, coyote, bears, coyotes, wolves, beavers, and more.

And, of course, I have the White Hats and the Black Hats - the good guys and the bad guys.  Two hundred and sixteen of them - and all with a mounted, a foot, and a dead version (took some doing to put that together but I did).

All of this will be based three figures to a stand which sort of flies in the face of what most people think of for Old West gaming but necessary to get so many figures on to the table.  That isn't because I wanted to use Hey, You In The Jail, though I did buy the rules and cull and idea or two from them.  Just wasn't what I wanted and not suitable for such a large game as I have in mind.s

As you can see, that is hardly a skirmish collection.  I do want the shootouts - more of the OK Corral variety than the mano-a-mano rarities (once read there were only two documented incidents of one man against one man drawing on each other in the street).  Or some of the Range War events - like the scene towards the end of Chisum.  The main town will sport several banks, besides several house of sporting ladies and other libation stations, plus a train station, and a river side landing for the riverboat trade.  Have a model of the Far West and other steam boats.

My ultimate goal is an incredibly large convention game to be called: The Whole Wild West, All At Once.  The cavalry will be engaging the indians and trying to intercede in a range war, or two.  The cattlemen will be at odds with each other and the sod busters and sheepherders.  The stages will be at risk of being robbed, so will the trains and the banks, and the rustlers will be busy.  And posses will be out chasing those law breakers.  Meanwhile some peaceable indians will be off the reservation to try and hunt the buffalo herd that's roaming about.  Somewhere in that morass of movement will be bits and pieces of my trademark humorous elements.

So, what I'm seeking are rules that allow 'adventure' on a grand scale, a Cecil B. DeMille experience of a miniatures game.  Perhaps the confusion arises from the 'traditional' uses of the terms within the hobby of role playing, skirmishing, and adventure.  My game will have a dozen skirmishy sort of actions going on on different parts of the board while there might also be a full scale battle happening in another area.  Not sure how much all of this helps to clarify what I seek but I hope it does give a better sense of where I'm trying to go.  Don't have time for more but let me know if that helps you understand my goal.

And thanks for looking and providing feedback.  I've set myself quite a challenge!

[NickNascati]

Do you know Bob Beattie?  Bob is an old friend of mine, and regularly games everything in a larger scale than normal.  I know he has done very large Western "battles", but I don't know what rules he uses.  Try posting your question over on The Miniatures Page, he is a regular reader and poster on TMP.