Romans for Conquest of Britain 43AD

[Mr.J]

Hi all I am looking for some advice so I thought I would bring my query to the pros.

I am considering starting a British conquest project and I am not sure which miniatures would be most appropriate, I realise that the conquest was ongoing for decades so armour, helmets etc. would change but which figures would be most appropriate?
(I also realise that Roman uniform can be quite contentious and that there is a lot of variation between what soldiers were probably wearing and limited evidence to support a lot of this)

I have been looking at Gripping Beast. Below are the minis that I think are the most appropriate with each I am unhappy with certain aspects so your guidance would be appreciated.

I just want to highlight that I am firmly in the belief that not everyone would be wearing lorica segmentata and would like to reflect this in the miniatures I choose.

Number one:

The only thing I am unhappy with is that he is missing the shoulder doubling, not in itself a massive deal but I do think it looks nice.

Number two:

Pretty much bang on but as I said I want some without segmentata

Number three:

Perhaps slightly too early, although I believe the coolus helmet was still widespread in this period, perhaps even rivalling the above helmets. I like that it has the shoulder doubling but it is now missing the apron.

Also what shaped shield would be most common in this period?

I know I am being really picky but if anyone has any thoughts on the appearance of the average legionary in this period please do comment. It seems that through every phase of the Roman period they are transitioning some aspect so I know I'm never going to get it 100% right.

I'm also really taken with the Aventine miniatures, they are such great sculpts and the price is very appealing but the helmet types have left me slightly baffled so any pointers on that would be well received.

[rumacara]

In my humble opinion i think you are on the right track.
Indeed romans would have a mix of equipment in the several stages of the invasion of Britain.
Supplies of equipment wouldnt be delivered for a complete legion at the same time so a mix of equipment on the same unit (cohort) would be the right aproach and its not common to see that in painted miniatures.

[Mad Doc Morris]

Good calls there. You've obviously given this some thought already, and I don't think anybody would 'know better' (there's always one, but you know…).

Until the real experts chime in, just a few thoughts:
Your best bet is to avoid any noticeably earlier or later helmets. I tend to refer to this chart (if in doubt, just google the design names with Image Search). Unfortunately, both of Aventine's Roman ranges are out of the race in that regard.
Scale, mail and laminated armour were all in use by mid-first century, you could happily mix and match. Shoulder doublings probably fell out of fashion in the latter half of that century, so they're not a must have.
Shields would become continuously smaller, particularly in height. The rectangular scutum doesn't need to be rectangular; if you can find them, rounded sides with top and bottom 'cut' straight would be cool. But perhaps even some "Republican" designs were still in use.
Take a look at Warlord (metal minis by Paul Hicks) and Foundry, too. There are some nice variations. But beware of scale creep.

[bigredbat]

I really like the idea of mixed armour, and have done this with my own Romans using the Foundry Saleh range (which is unfortunately quite restricted in poses).



I find that Gripping Beast range a little wooden.  Have you considered mixing the Foundry Perry EIR range, with the Imago Militis range, which has legionaries in chain?  Nice minis, scale very well with Foundry.  Imago  http://northstarfigures.com/list.php?&man=83&page=1  Also some (but not many) of the Warlord minis scale well with these.

[Mr.J]

Thanks for the advice and suggestions. I've looked at Foundry and whilst lovely figures the price does put me off, however I also agree that the Gripping Beast miniatures do look slightly wooden.

Bigredbat: It was actually your blog that acted as an inspiration for this project so I am glad that you have commented. Is there a way of distinguishing between the Saleh and Perry sculpts? It looks like there is a bit of a scale difference between the two.

I might bite the bullet and go for Foundry however I think with a decent paint job and a mix of figures the Gripping Best ones could still look decent. Not too sure, but the price certainly appeals to me. I also really like the Crusader minis but the range is so limited I think I'm going to right it off.

[bigredbat]

Hi Mr J,

In my experience no one ever regretted buying the best minis!  The less good ones never get painted.  Hell, even the best ones rarely get painted!  ;-)

The Foundry Perrys all have detachable shields, and the Foundry Salehs all have cast on.  I love the big Salehs, but I also like the smaller Perrys, so am collecting two armies in parallel. 



If you want Foundry and are in Europe, I have quite a few spare Perrys, that you could have cheapish.  I also have some spare primed Imago Militis.  The Foundry Perry can be found at sensible prices on eBay, if one is patient.

Best, Simon

[jazbo]

The foundry price difference is actually an illusion
 Look at their multi pack deals. If you buy six packs your get two free. Which actually makes them cheaper than gripping beast if my calculations are correct.

[bigredbat]

...yes and because there are so many of them out there, they are even cheaper on Fleabay. 

[delbruck]

I would use mainly Foundry Caesarian Legionaries, mixed with a few early imperial Auxilia and/or Legionaries in mail, scale, and lorica segmentata - but with uniform shields. I am not aware that anyone makes a copted oval, but I think the Foundry oval republican scutum if probably close enough.

[bigredbat]

Hmm Foundry Caesarians are somewhat larger than the Foundry Perry EIR. 

I mix them in with my Foundry Salehs, though, they are a great size mach with those.  It is possible to swap heads to get a bit of variety in head poses and helmets, sometimes I use Black Tree heads for this.

[delbruck]

I think Aventine should mix with Foundry Caesarian, although I am not sure if there is anything in the styles that would make them incompatible.

[bigredbat]

Yes I have a few Aventines mixed in with my Foundry Caesarian army.  The style is a little different; some of them work well, others not so well

[Mr.J]

Right well I have lots to think about now then. I'm going to carry on pondering a bit but Bigredbat you may get a PM in the not so distant future regarding the Perry miniatures.

The foundry price difference is actually an illusion

It's only an illusion if you fancy spending £72 to get the minis free, although you are correct, looking at GB they work out at £1.38 per mini and Foundry are £1.50 so the difference is negligible really before you start looking at their deals. But as I don't ever bulk buy minis the deal doesn't work for me. I find large purchases just sit in my pile and look daunting. I tend to buy a unit at a time that way if I do lose interest I haven't burnt too much cash.

[bigredbat]

...I reckon about 75p a head for Foundry EIR, that's roughly what I've paid.  It is sensible to buy just what you need.  I've never been sensible.