Insurance - premiums and claims

[Bezzo]

Two things came together to inspire this.

Daeothar's thread on what happens to your stuff when you are dead sparked a lot of discussion on 'value' and what one's treasures could be worth. Then I read about another forum member suffering an awful loss due to flooding of his storage area.

I just wondered if any LAFfers specify their figure collection as a separate item on home insurance, and if anyone has ever made a claim? I was curious how insurance companies - who routinely have a reputation for trying to minimise payouts - would accept a realistic value for something so relatively esoteric.

I can imagine some insurance worker shaking their head in disbelief when a claim for several pounds per figure comes across their desk and asking "All that just for toys? Are they gold plated?"

No, just OOP items and with hours of time and skill put into their painting and basing, and which would be very expensive to replace.

Has anyone any actual experiences to share?

[dadlamassu]

Advice on insurance claims (UK)
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/scotland/consumer_s/consumer_professional_and_financial_services_e/consumer_insurance_e/consumer_insurance_claims_e/making_a_claim_on_your_insurance_policy.htm

Basically read what it says in your policy.  A basic, low cost policy will probably not cover a collection of model soldiers worth more than £500.

Make a list of your collection.  Decide if it is one collection or several, cost them at replacement value.  If you have receipts so much the better.  If you want recompensed for painting and time then price them that way.  Give your list to your insurer.  Now decide how much of the collection or collections are going to travel outside your home and the value of those.  Again you need to let the insurance company know the degree of risk.  They will then quote you.

If the items are in your car and your car gets stolen with them in it then check both your car insurance and your home insurance.  You can only claim on one.

You may need an insurance broker. 

Mine?  Insured as "several collections of model soldiers, terrain and associated items" similar to paintings bought at exhibitions etc - replacement price only.  Risk factor - no more than £500 worth taken out of home at a time.  £500 limit average 4 times a year, £250 limit several times a year. 

[Cory]

Here in the US I carry a specific rider for my miniatures and another one for some antiques as my normal homeowner policy caps my normal goods at about $20,000. The additional policies only cost a few dollars per year, small enough that I honestly didn't pay attention.

If damage does occur I still have to substantiate it to some degree - a blog or online photo account can be a good help. Additionally on the advice of the claims auditor for my insurance company I sell a few miniatures a year so I can maintain a documentable value for my middling quality paint jobs.

[dhtandco]

anyone recommend a UK company or broker who does specific policy for collections?

[Westfalia Chris]

Hi all,

I consider this to be a valid and relevant topic, and your contributions so far have been rather useful. To avoid confusion, however, I would like to ask everybody to add a line at the start of their posts stating to which legislation or judicial system they are referring, since insurance law and practice may vary considerably between the UK, the US and Australia, from which we have heard so far - not even starting with Germany.

Also, if you can, I would like to ask you to provide reference links to back up your information. This could be an FAQ page, link to judicial rulings or similar.

Finally, please note that LAF is not in any way responsible or can be held liable for legal information provided within these pages.

[Cubs]

I used to sell insurance (UK) and the key word here is indemnity.

Insurance will seek to indemnify you - ie. replace your items or provide the money to buy their replacement - to return you to the position you were in before the accident happened.

Time and effort put in to produce things of sentimental value, or artistic works, will not normally be covered unless you have them separately valued and/or take out specific cover, as Scurv says.

[Kes]

Sounds like excess does work differently around the world.

I've thankfully only claimed on insurance a couple of times here (UK) and never paid the insurance company
anything to make a claim - the excess is just deducted from the amount they agree to pay out for your claim.

http://www.policyexpert.co.uk/insurance-blog/ensuring-cover/house-insurance-excess-explained/

[joroas]

Are you saying in the UK if you have £600 dollars worth of thing damaged and your excess is £200 there is no fee payable to the company and they give you £400 which is £600 minus the £200 excess?

Exactly!  If the claim is only small it is better to take the hit to avoid losing No Claims Bonus and if it is bigger, then you pay the repairer or buy replacements yourself, you don't give the insurers any money.

[FramFramson]

A minor note for confused North Americans: The 'excess' that the Aussies and the Brits are speaking of in this thread is the deductible.

[maxxon]

Insurance works on a new for old basis. If you have one of the old boxy TV's for example and its stolen from the house and you put in a claim. You will get the modern equivalent of that TV because no one makes boxy TV's anymore, flat screens are the new standard. If it was top of the line back in its day then you get a modern top of the line TV to replace it.

All I can say is you have a really good policy.

Over here in Finland policies are based on "current value". You crash your old car, you get what a similar old car would cost at "Honest Joe's Used Autos", NOT a brand spanking new one.

The value is largely based on mathematical depreciation formulas rather than any real market value. The depreciation for home electronics is especially high, 30-50% PER YEAR, depending on company and policy.

In essence this means everything electronic in your house is worth essentially zero if it wasn't bought yesterday. Which is essentially true, seen any old TVs at the store lately?. The fact that they are not giving out 3-year old TVs for free is not the insurance company's problem, it's your problem.

The problem is that my slightly old TV or phone or whatever still has value to me as a usable item even though it does not have monetary value in the "I could sell this for $$$" sense. And the insurance company pays out monetary value.

Things are better for expensive things that are expected to have longer service lives, like major kitchen appliances and furniture, but the things we care care about are essentially worthless under a normal home insurance policy.

My comics collection? Worthless. Most people just binned those 80's X-Men, and that's the standard the insurance company uses to value them.
My laserdisc collection? Worthless.
My DVD collection? Worthless.
My video game collection? Worthless.
My book collection? Worthless.
And yes, my gaming collection? WORTHLESS.
My gun collection is actually worth something, because I specifically asked it to be included AND they understood that the damn things have value (though I wouldn't like to test that clause in today's climate).

Just because you paid money for something does not mean it has value.

I bought a Big Mac yesterday. How much is it worth today? Even if I hadn't eaten it? Even if I had frozen it? Even if there is a crazy Big Mac collector out there who pays top dollar for vintage Big Macs?

In real life, the general value of yesterday's Big Mac is ZERO.

The same applies to much of what we buy. We are living in a culture of disposable things.

Why do I bother to have such a crappy policy then? Mostly because it covers major disasters like a fire at "full value", i.e. in total loss cases they pay out the policy amount without bothering to itemize the losses.

Small claims are generally not worth making. After the depreciation and deductibles, they generally don't pay out anything.

Yes, I did ask about a separate policy for collectibles. You'd end up paying something around 10% of appraised value in yearly fees, quickly making such a thing pointless for stuff that can actually be replaced with money.

[maxxon]

It comes back to being put back into the same position before the claim.

That's the theory.

The problem is that the insurance company does not go out and replace stuff for you. They give you an amount of money they feel is enough to get you back to where you were.

If they feel your old TV set's leftover value is $10, they'll give you ten bucks. Then it's your problem to locate someone who actually sells TV sets for $10.

In practice the insurance payout will cover part of the expense of getting new stuff, but never all of it.

It is not possible to get a "new for old" policy here. Such things are just not sold.

Except, ironically, for consumer electronics at hideous prices like 30% item value per year -- which means they only make sense if you are terminally accident prone (like my son) or planning to "accidentally" break the item to get a new one (and the salesmen point this out to you if you're too stupid to figure it out yourself). These policies are not sold by traditional insurance companies but by the consumer electronics chains with the covered item. And they actually replace items, not give out money.

Nevermind all the fun with burden of proof... do you have a catalog of the lost items? How about original receipts?

Ofcourse there is a governing body to settle claims disputes -- run jointly by the big insurance companies. Guess who they find in favor of usually?