Advice Please - WoTR with Lion Rampant

[ncervellati]

Greetings!

I am probably jumping on the Perry WoTR train with Lion Rampant as well and this topic has been really helpful.
 
I just have one question for those who are planning to build a force as I am. How are you going to visually differentiate the various types of troops? Household from regular, regular from levies? I assume they all would wear the same livery, perhaps not everyone among the levies (?).

Thinking about it, I will probably use the best equipped man-at-arms as household troops and those less protected as levies, with regulars standing in the middle, with a mixture of both.
Any other options you could suggest?

[commissarmoody]

If your going for a theme such as a symbol or colors. You can have the Household is bold sold colors, the levies with maybe only a patch or armband with the lords colors on it. And the regulars some where in-between.

And also as you said, full kit for the household, mixed for the regular and castoffs for the levels.

[Ray Earle]

The household troops and men-at-arms will get the red/black combo. Whereas less important troops will get a general madder red, ochre or orange uniform so that they will be easily distinguished on the battlefield.

As I said in an earlier post. I like the idea of using less armour in the levied troops too. Giving them a sort of 'peasant/just raised' look to them.

From a painting point of view I'll use a bold red and black for the men at arms and household archers and bill. For the regulars I'll probably plump for a faded look to the livery, using a duller red along with black and a few figures just wearing a dull red livery. For the levy I'll use a mix of madder red, dull orange and ochre to give them a slightly more rag tag look.

Obviously the same rules will work for other livery colours. 

I hope that's of some help.  

[Arlequín]

I might be muddying the waters even more than I usually do, but you could give your levies 'bends', which were simple 'sashes' for want of a better word, in the Lord's colours. I did think that they were some sort of officers mark of rank at one time, but the Duke of Buckingham ordered a couple of thousand in the early 1450s, so seemingly not.

A bit fiddly to create perhaps but they will keep the un-liveried figures in with the colour scheme. The hang diagonally from the right shoulder (as a 'bend' would) and simply sewed or pinned where the ends meet (no knot as in later sashes I'm led to believe).

[Ray Earle]

Just as a thought Andy, you could always go the route of painting the force of a local lord. I'm only 20 miles from you over in Northants and there are quite a few choices (and probably a few more) after a little research. Just looking at the first battle of St. Albans we have;

-Richard, Plantagenet of Fotheringhay, Northamptonshire (Duke of York)
-Richard Harrowden of Harrowden, Northamptonshire (killed in battle)
-Thomas Roos of Rockingham, Northamptonshire
-Thomas Tresham of Rushton, Northamptonshire

Obviously it'll take a bit more work, and painting your own banners, but it'll give you a unique force. 





 

[guitarheroandy]

I'm from Suffolk originally, on the border with Norfolk, so was toying with your idea but making up or using actual people from there. However, there's probably more scope locally as initial research turns up little for Norfolk and Suffolk beyond the actual Dukes...

[Ray Earle]

Ah, my better half is from Suffolk, Framlingham to be precise, so I was tempted to go with the Duke of Norfolk.

But as I've lived in Northants the majority of my life I thought I might do a bit more research and go local. 

Working about 5 miles from the Bosworth visitors centre helps too.

[guitarheroandy]

Well, I have done a bit of digging around and have found a few likely candidates from East Anglia...most of 'em largely Lancastrians by the look of it...and most of them seem to have red and white on their coats of arms, which at least would mean a co-ordinated force.

Will keep digging around a bit more and see what the alternatives are...maybe into Lincolnshire, as I went to college in Lincoln...

It's quite fun this, although it's not getting any models glued together...

[Arlequín]

The Home Counties and East Anglia were the most densely populated areas in the 15th Century, so if you can't find something around there, there's no hope for the rest of us provincials.

 

[Ray Earle]

It's quite fun this, although it's not getting any models glued together...

  That is the drawback. I've got one bill built so far...

Just found a branch of the Harringtons who lived in Brixworth, Northants as well...

[guitarheroandy]

I found some interesting stuff in Lincolnshire - some Yorkists with a rather fetching red and yellow coat of arms and Stamford's arms is a nice mix of colours, so that would look better than the straight red and white of much of East Anglia.

Then I got into local stuff...Huntingdon having a nice blue and red, with Peterborough having the gold keys on blue, so options there too.

I'm increasingly drawn to either Gainsborough & Stamford colours or doing something local with the Huntingdon, Peterborough and/or some Northants ones, as they'd all work together, esp for expanding the retinue for the Sharp Practice WOTR thingy in the Lardy Special.
I also seem to be heading for a Yorkist scheme, purely because most of the ones I have looked at had a more lively range of colours - I fancy madder, ochre and blue (probably Foundry Storm Blue) across the Sharp Practice force.

I'm thinking for that force I'd field 3 main lords/earls' retinues two of which have 2 x 6 models bow 2 x 6 models bill. The third replaces 1x 6 bills with 1 x 6 models foot men-at-arms. It could then be supplemented by additional bow, by mercenary pike/shot and/or light cavalry (once the plastics are available) depending on how I get on with it all. It's not actually a colossal extension from the basic recommended retinue for Lion Rampant either and would give me a few more options for that set too...

All of which has led me to the worrying realisation that this is a proper project!!!! ANOTHER proper project...

So, tonight, I may get out the craft knife and the glue and set to work on a few models...

[Ray Earle]

If you're leaning towards Yorkist sympathies don't forget you've also got Edmund, Earl of Rutland if you want to add a Plantagenet who isn't Richard III and also fairly local.

It's easy to get sucked in at this stage, those plastics are so versatile..  The good thing with the men-at-arms set is that once you've filled out the compulsory troop slots you'll have plenty left for character figures. I'm looking forward to the release of the light cavalry as I think in the smaller engagements they'll prove their worth.

You'll have a sound force for both sets of rules which is a nice added bonus.

I look forward to following your progress with the clippers and liquid poly.  

[James Morris]

Hi Andy,  

Really looking forward to seeing what you produce; I don't think there's any harm in choosing the colour scheme that you fancy painting (my first knights from my teenage years were decked out in my favourite green & white...should have been Tudors.)   Lion Rampant in Nottingham has spawned a load of us looking up 'family' heraldry, though we are all going a couple of centuries earlier, Simon de Montfort etc.  I have discovered that the Morris coat of arms actually features a 'lion rampant', so that's a done deal.  Best of luck!

[Ray Earle]

I have discovered that the Morris coat of arms actually features a 'lion rampant', so that's a done deal.

Slightly more impressive than my stripes and shells.. 

[guitarheroandy]

I have found two variants for the 'Hawes' surname (neither of which have the first thing to do with me, being descended from simple Suffolk country folk, like wot I am ) - the more impressive of which has a blue background with 3 (yes...THREE!) gold lions and a gold 'wavy line' across the middle (sorry...I have no idea what the heraldic name for one of those is...how embarrassing!!)

Very tempting to use aspects of that design and create a fictional 'Earl Of Peterborough' perhaps using the blue background and then adding gold keys and/or a gold lion... 

Anyway...enough of this...clippers, craft knife and glue time!!!!