"Open Combat" Battle Report (new game, 11 March)

[PatrickWR]

Last week the club came together to try out Open Combat, the new medieval/fantasy ruleset by Second Thunder. The game was written by Carl Brown, a former Games Workshop creative type, with additional development from Gav Thorpe, a current Games Workshop creative type.

Open Combat is designed to give a simple, concise skirmish game with just a handful of figures. That's right up our alley here at Chicago Skirmish Wargames, so we were pretty excited to try out this game. Here's a link to the battle report and review:
http://chicagoskirmish.blogspot.com/2014/11/battle-report-open-combat-by-second.html



After our games wrapped up, the six of us spent a bit of time discussing the pros and cons of Open Combat, and comparing it to our go-to fantasy ruleset, Song of Blades & Heroes.

Open Combat definitely has more granularity and tactical depth. Unit placement matters, and terrain seems to matter more. The game has a weapon list, although it's pretty short at this point. We didn't have a whole lot of shooting in our games, but Open Combat handles this in an innovative way: shooters have infinite range and are hindered only by terrain features. This rule makes a single shooter way more useful on the Open Combat battlefield, compared to the SBH battlefield.

Another observation is that leaders feel like leaders in Open Combat. You can dump lots of points into their stats and not have to worry about them dying and triggering the collapse of your entire warband -- something that happens regularly in SBH. (Note that this is a feature of SBH, not necessarily a drawback, since it often pushes games toward completion. Still, it has always felt odd that leaders must lead from the back in SBH.)



The game requires a pen and paper to track stat changes, which occur regularly due to casualties or effects. Some stats wear off after one turn; others are permanent. It's possible to have several overlapping temporary stat modifiers on a single figure during his activation. Playing at a higher level (say, 12 to 20 figures) might prove problematic because of all the record keeping required.



We agreed, however, that the rules seemed somewhat incomplete. Every other section seemed to be waiting for some new element or detail to be bolted on to complete the author's idea. Most rules seem to work with figures that are roughly human-sized ... two arms, two legs, carrying weapons, etc ... but it was more difficult to work in the bizarre monsters and beasts that typically populate our fantasy games. The current game is certainly playable, but there is ample opportunity for the publisher to expand upon the current offering in a subsequent edition. We look forward to seeing what Carl comes up with!

And here are a few pics from the games. Many more at the blog!

[DeafNala]

Since I haven't been actively involved in gaming for awhile, the rules have a limited interest for moi, BUT the photos are BEAUTIFUL...GREAT STUFF!

[YPU]

Always interesting to hear what a group concludes on a new ruleset like this, especially compared to one I do know fairly well. Thanks!

[eilif]

I was the player with the knights.  My impressions are pretty much as PatrickWR has written.  A nice system with some real interesting features.  Tactically interesting and fairly easy to learn.  However, it does feel a bit like a beta or playtest copy.

I'll be looking forward to the next revision or expansion to see what becomes of this game.

[Lawful Evil]

to see what becomes of this game.

A kickstarter for a physical copy. I couldn't find evidence the rules themselves had been refined in the interim.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/590134953/open-combat-miniature-skirmish-game-rulebook

The system got some nice reviews from Meeples and Miniatures, but they say OCs greatest strength is it's ability to stat and make your own troops, which it touts as unique. I can think of a half a dozen systems at least that now do this (my fave BoB comes to mind). It's not so unique anymore. I already have nearly every version of the Song series as well. I'm not so sure I need another system, even if it does look really nice.

Top photos, guys, missed them the first time around.

[eilif]

A kickstarter for a physical copy. I couldn't find evidence the rules themselves had been refined in the interim.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/590134953/open-combat-miniature-skirmish-game-rulebook

The system got some nice reviews from Meeples and Miniatures, but they say OCs greatest strength is it's ability to stat and make your own troops, which it touts as unique. I can think of a half a dozen systems at least that now do this (my fave BoB comes to mind). It's not so unique anymore. I already have nearly every version of the Song series as well. I'm not so sure I need another system, even if it does look really nice.

Top photos, guys, missed them the first time around.

Glad you enjoyed the report. Better late than never! 
I just heard about the KS on TMP.  My comment there was basically that if this was a refined version I'd probably have pledge already, but I haven't heard anything to suggest it had been.  It's a cool system with lsrgely effective mechanics and alot of potential, but IMHO, the current PDF isn't quite ready for hard-copy-primetime.

I'll be keeping my eye on this KS though to see if word of improvements comes up.

[dijit]

My impression is pretty much the same. A very solid core rule set that seems to just lack the extra little 'piff' to turn it into a very good ruleset. It needs an improved magic and monster set before it's properly ready. My impression from the forum is that he has ideas for them, so it seems a pity that he hasn't given himself time to get them out/ready before doing the kickstarter.

[eilif]

Yep.
     Of course it's still early, maybe as the KS progresses he'll announce updates and such.  My main concern is that a printed book will solidify the game in it's present form for a longer time than necessary and push an updated edition even further back.

It's possible that supplements could help this, but I'd have to go back and read the existing rules a bit more carefully to see if the issues we had could be addressed by supplements or if it's core-rules shortcomings.

[qazbnm]

Cool battle report/review, both informative and contained lots of pretty pictures 

I'm quite intrigued by this game too. But as others have said I'm looking for it to have something more than just the basic fighting rules before committing to buy it. What I find interesting is that it has more base characteristics than both sbh and brink of battle, which should mean less special rules are needed for each unit. And the advantage against sbh is that it apparently contains rules for weapons and such out of the box.

Otherworld skirmish should be coming 'soon', and then there's  Skulldred, so there are quite a few skirmish rulesets both released and forthcoming to choose from. I hope we see more from open combat soon to make it an alternative amongst all these choices.

[eilif]

As for a comparison vs SBH...
-I think they both are aiming for a fast-play experience. 
-For the overall profile, SBH looks to less stats and more special rules, OC adds a couple of more stats and weapons rules with far fewer special rules.
-What really sets OC apart is the degradation of abilities.  This requires more paperwork, but it's a pretty innovative system that is more detailed than simple hit points, but not overly complicated.  This results in a slightly longer game with slightly fewer miniatures, but not too much difference in size or scope from SBH.

Good to hear about Skulldred finally coming out. I played a beta a year or so back.  I didn't quite "get-it" but it did intrigue me enough to be willing to play again.  A couple of our members were following it for a while until it stalled.  However it looks like the author is doing well and back in the saddle, so it'll be interesting to see what comes for the game.

I'm a big fan of SBH, but I'm certainly open to other games as well.  It's nice to see authors finally coming up with new and different ways of doing fast-play fantasy warband skirmish.

[PatrickWR]

For some reason the inclusion of an equipment list intrigues me. After 5 years of SBH (has it been that long?) I yearn for the chance to differentiate my skirmish figures based on their equipment loadout. Nothing too fiddly, just a few special rules here and there to give some flavor. Open Combat gives just that, which I think is a big part of why I liked it initially.

I agree with eilif that a Kickstarter-backed printed version might be a step  backward if it codifies the current iteration of the ruleset, which really needs a bit more development.

As it is now, the current ruleset is perfect for a mature, non-power-gaming group of players who are interested in tinkering and building on a strong foundation.

[PatrickWR]

We played another session of Open Combat last week. A 4-player game this time! Thoughts, reflections and lots more pics are available on the blog:
http://chicagoskirmish.blogspot.com/2015/03/open-combat-battle-for-old-city.html

Here are a few choice scenes from the game...

[robh]

Your reports got me looking at the KS for the rulebook, but l see what you mean about incomplete. The comments section makes reference to a monster supplement, a cavalry supplement, a magic expansion and something for warmachines.
Hard to see the point of backing at this stage if you have houserule all this until the supplements are done.
By which time there will almost certainly be a v2 all inclsive version.

[dijit]

Your reports got me looking at the KS for the rulebook, but l see what you mean about incomplete. The comments section makes reference to a monster supplement, a cavalry supplement, a magic expansion and something for warmachines.
Hard to see the point of backing at this stage if you have houserule all this until the supplements are done.
By which time there will almost certainly be a v2 all inclsive version.

yeah, I'm not backing it mainly on this principle - far too incomplete.

[seldon]

I have gravitated more towards Epic Heroes, but as most of us my compulsive behavior drove me to get open combat as well...

this is a very informative review,... and I have to agree that the minis and terrain on those pictures are INSANE....

would love to see more skirmish reports with any set of rules and those minis...

Francisco