Contract laser cutting - now with farcical responses.

[zebcook]

Probably not helpful but you could look into local hackerspaces to see if there's a laser cutter you can use. You'll have to do the cutting yourself, but that's really easy after someone shows you how. I've been doing this for my personal projects. Frankly the hardest part is setting up the files, which you've already done. DOeSLiverpool lists they have two machines that can be reserved.

[Elk101]

There are some spectacular examples of customer service there as well as some displays of knowing your product / service.

I have some scifi rooms I'm interested in getting cut. I have them drawn up in CAD files. I asked someone a year ago if it might be something they'd be interested in but after a long delay just asked for a quote, which I've not yet received. Would it be possible to pm you for some suggestions?  It seems cheeky to take advantage of your work and it would be a shame not to be told to f*(k off myself but it would shorten the process.
Cheers

[FramFramson]

Personally, I think it's right and correct for him to give kudos (and business) to the sensible companies by naming the good, helpful ones. Some people might name the idiots too.

[Dewbakuk]

Probably not helpful but you could look into local hackerspaces to see if there's a laser cutter you can use.

Might not be helpful to Brandlin but it was helpful to me. I remember whinging when they started to appear that there was nothing like that near me. Turns out there is one now and has been for a couple of years. Now I just have to find time to go use it...

[Elk101]

Personally, I think it's right and correct for him to give kudos (and business) to the sensible companies by naming the good, helpful ones. Some people might name the idiots too.

Sorry, I was being sarcastic about the customer service, I forgot the old Internet-sarcasm oil and water thing! My fault  I can't believe that people can afford to run a business like that. Totally agree about naming the good ones, though I'd also like to know who to avoid!

[Brandlin]

Thank you all for the comments. I thought you might enjoy.

I'll try and respond to everyone...

Wow, just wow...
On the plus side, if you put wings on it, 1.5mm plywood suddenly exists!

Some arguments just head into a dead end.

I laughed out loud at some comments, especially the "I thought it was a laser printer" one 

Why is this person allowed to respond to company email?

Probably not helpful but you could look into local hackerspaces to see if there's a laser cutter you can use. You'll have to do the cutting yourself, but that's really easy after someone shows you how. I've been doing this for my personal projects. Frankly the hardest part is setting up the files, which you've already done. DOeSLiverpool lists they have two machines that can be reserved.

I have looked into this. Closest to me are Manchester/Liverpool both an hour away. Biggest problem is that they're mostly only open when I'm not available, or their hourly rate is higher than I was paying previously for someone to cut them for me. Those ones that do free hire are booked solid.

My cunning plan is to do a deal with my sons high school to use theirs, but the head says no to anything commercial!

There are some spectacular examples of customer service there as well as some displays of knowing your product / service.

I have some scifi rooms I'm interested in getting cut. I have them drawn up in CAD files. I asked someone a year ago if it might be something they'd be interested in but after a long delay just asked for a quote, which I've not yet received. Would it be possible to pm you for some suggestions?  It seems cheeky to take advantage of your work and it would be a shame not to be told to f*(k off myself but it would shorten the process.
Cheers

PM away. But be warned, i do know about the CAD and engineering side but the laser side I've always outsourced. Happy to help if I can.

Personally, I think it's right and correct for him to give kudos (and business) to the sensible companies by naming the good, helpful ones. Some people might name the idiots too.

I will happily share the good names when I get sorted. I'm not getting into a slanging match with the poorer ones here.

[Dewbakuk]

That's a shame, the hackspace in Nottingham is open 24hrs to members, with free access to most of the machines inc the CNC machine. The laser cutter does have a charge of £1 per 10mins though.  Never lasered something myself so not sure how quick it is..

[beefcake]

The company I use, ponoko, are pretty good, but the smallest size Ply they have is 1.6mm.

[Brandlin]

That's a shame, the hackspace in Nottingham is open 24hrs to members, with free access to most of the machines inc the CNC machine. The laser cutter does have a charge of £1 per 10mins though.  Never layered something myself so not sure how quick it is..

Mostly these places seem happy to help product development and prototyping to get 1-2 sheets cut. But if I say "I need your machine for 8 hours to production cut" and they start to say no. Understandably.


If I'm going to give the volume (small though it is) to a producer, then I'd rather work with them on prototyping too.

The company I use, ponoko, are pretty good, but the smallest size Ply they have is 1.6mm.

Ponoko you say.. Hmmm
That's US based, but the have a Uk outlet in razorlab.
Razorlab don't offer ply or MDF under 3mm in thickness, and don't offer HIPS at all.
They're happy to cut them all, but I have to send them materials and they won't guarantee the finish on them so it gets expensive to double handle and they're iffy about the HIPS. In fairness to them I am yet to get a finally reply to my request.

[von Lucky]

The MDF comment scared me. Main reason I bought a filter mask to ensure I don't inhale the dust when I work with it.

[Gary Peach]

Hi
Couple of things.  In the UK, if its a Polystyrene it has fume issues and so companies should not use it...  rene part is chlorine type based and will produce Chlorine type Gas in cutting, this is not allowed even to be extracted or filtered in the UK. (Ive been working with mass CNC and Laser cutting production for 20+ years).

MDF Is all OK in the UK.  The resins are natural and contained in the wood pulp.  MDF is produced (in basic terms) by boiling up wood pulp and compressing it at high temperatures and pressure, this boils out the natural resins to form the binder to hold the wood fibers together, any resins added further are also natural and wood based, re pine resin.  You can see this resin as a residue on the surface of laser cut panels.  When machining it is good to use extraction and masks as it does produce fine dust, but this is also the case when cutting any 'real' timbers.  Please dont use the USA as reference to UK/EU regulations as these are regarding processing techniques and machinery not the base materials where regulations are involved.

The material thickness becomes an issue as to supply it the cutters will have to order a minimum pack and not just a sheet in many cases, and will end up with a load left they can not use till it may come up again...  cost on their books unless paid for.

Many Laser cutting companies dont use CAD software in engineering terms but Graphic Software - re Vinyl cutters.  and so importing and translation may cause 'issues'  they can not resolve. (What form of CAD are you using and what format are you supplying - and version).

I looked around the same way and found the same issues.  I dont understand how any independent laser companies can be making any money. 

Small guys have small lasers and they take forever to cut, Big guys have big lasers and they need volume.  However there are companies that can do it for a reasonable cost.

After all that... Give me an email info@marchattack.co.uk.  Let me see the rabbit (CAD file) Email Sarissa too.  Can you provide the material, this would kill the cost of over ordering a pallet load, I could help with CAD files if need be - I understand you have used them with another supplier, can you or have you got their files.  These should be yours by agreement - to take to another supplyer. 

Happy to help if I can.

Gary

[Brandlin]

Hi Gary, thanks for the long response. I appreciate your comments and input.

However, I'm not sure I agree with your comments on HIPS and MDF.

Hips is not chlorine based. It's base chemical formula is C8H8. It's a Polyphenylethylene. It doesn't give off chlorine. I'm not saying the fumes are not dangerous, but they are not chlorine. A quick read through available Material Safety Data Sheets confirms this. Any of the PVC family of plastics will give of chlorine however.

I accept that many small or one man companies will not have the necessary extraction to handle plastics other than acrylic. And may rightly stay away from materials they don't understand. I'm not criticising them for that, nor am I asking them to do something that may endanger them.

As to MDF. Calling resins as 'natural' and therefore ok. Is nonsense. Cobra venom, cyanide, uranium, are all 'natural'! Much of the resin used to bind MDF is formaldehyde (HCHO) along with other VOCs. There are plenty of restrictions on formaldehyde exposure, however it's a much simpler compound to manage than chlorine. Of far greater concern in MDF is the dust, which is very fine and can be breathed in. In general dust in your lungs is not a good thing! I understand from other laser cutter owners that MDF residue (dust / resin) really screws the optics as well, so requires good extraction.


As to your other points...

I'm using solid works and turb cad for the geometry. I'm aware of the limitations of many companies that don't understand the geometry and files other than say illustrator. These are not geometry problems. I can supply the files in any format. The issues is ignorance in some of the companies.

As to material supply and volume. I disagree. I'm not talking about expensive products, or anything esoteric. The materials I'm talking about are easily available in small quantities. These are not pallet sized orders. I'm just trying to avoid double handling it by buying it having it shipped to me, shipping it to them and back. I accept that they may not wish to look at materials they don't list - that's their choice. But they won't get my business.

I agree with you about not knowing how some of these companies stay in business. I think some of them buy a cutter and make a living over charging the card making and scrap booking fraternity by cutting butterflies two at a time.

Am talking to sarissa already thanks. One of the helpful outfits!

All the files are mine. All the design work is me, and I am uber confident none of this is a cad issue. I'm just trying to buy the time on the laser cutter and the experience to drive it (power feed rate etc).


I'd like to reiterate - I'm not complaining about any of these companies. They can run their business how they like. Clearly I know more about the subject than a worrying number of them, but also less than some. Some of them don't want to be in the market that I'm in, and that's fine too. I just find some of the responses hilarious and some if them seem to be gouging customers.


I'll drop you an email if you want to discuss.

[beefcake]

That one saying they would need to redo all your work and charge £45 an hour seems like a goer 
That is a ridiculous price.

[FramFramson]

That one saying they would need to redo all your work and charge £45 an hour seems like a goer 
That is a ridiculous price.

Yes! Is that company named "BALLS Inc" by any chance?

[OSHIROmodels]

That is a ridiculous price.

It's not I'm afraid.

It slightly on the high side but certainly in the bounds of reality.

cheers

James