Napoleonic Persians - Westfalia Kickstarter

[Arthur]

http://www.ottoman-uniforms.com/persian-iran-qajar-dynasty-army-navy/

this gives a lot of info !

Carl

A very useful link : cheers for posting it, Carl 

[Arthur]

I thought front ranks were quite chunky ,almost GW build? The ones I got here are don't mix very well with the odd perry or Victrix I have.

Front Rank are indeed chunky but some of their Russians aren't quite as bulky as the other FR ranges : I have the Front Rank Russian artillery officer standing with his hands clasped behind his back and he actually fits in pretty well with my Foundry Russian gunners. 

[axabrax]

Very cool, but I'm still not sure that I understand where they would be fighting and on who's side.

[3 fingers]

Front Rank are indeed chunky but some of their Russians aren't quite as bulky as the other FR ranges : I have the Front Rank Russian artillery officer standing with his hands clasped behind his back and he actually fits in pretty well with my Foundry Russian gunners. 

Ah right I have english cavalry, though I nearly bought some Bavarian schutzen when I fancied making a 40k  pyran dragoon army.

[Arthur]

Very cool, but I'm still not sure that I understand where they would be fighting and on who's side.

They'd be fighting on their own side, with occasional limited support from France and Great Britain. The Russo-Persian wars were fought in the Caucasus between Imperial Russia and the Persian empire. They were basically territorial disputes between two expansionist regional powers. The Westfalia figures are essentially geared toward the 1804-1813 Russo-Persian war, though they can probably be used as late as the 1840's. 

[Tordenskjold]

How about minis of the supposed Russian desertes who fought in Persian service?

In the 1830s, the two Russian regiments were part of the new Persian regular Army:
Composed of deserters, mainly from the Russian army in Georgia.
They were well-paid soldiers who fought well. The Shah placed particular trust in them when facing internal rebellion or religious disaffection.
Described as a guard regiment in 1837.
Uniformed with red coats with light blue facing colour, and a row of buttons on breast, dark green trousers with red side-stripes.
Wore a "red KIVER (Russian) shako, with small hair plume" (an 1835, description of the Russian battalion, states - "heavy shakos, with high green plumes".

[Helen]

I thank you all for the links to various sites and have spent sometime exploring these links.

I've a couple of questions. It seems the Persians also used a much smaller calibre gun on the camel. Copied from the link "Zamburek/falconets of very small calibre, and fitted with a heavy wooden stock, were also used. These -Zamburek/Guns, were also swivel mounted, however, did not need to be taken off the camels, during firing. The animals simply rested on their knees. The saddle arch for fitting the Zamburek/falconets, and the Zamburek/Guns was bound in iron so as to withstand the recoil of firing."

Further information: "The Shah always had some 400 zambureks, and each prince ruling a province had about 200.
The crew consisted of four gunners (three of whom walked), and one rider (with the camel and gun).
This would give a force of 50 guns, in the provincial units of zamburek.
However, note that the two rear gunners walking both carry a small Zamburek/Guns each."

Also, I noticed "Congreve Rocket Batteries: Introduced by the British from India in 1810-1813."

Question is raised if they were ground firing or used a rig?

Dr Chris's work on the web-site has provided an excellent start for the Persians.

Link for reference:

http://www.ottoman-uniforms.com/persian-iran-qajar-dynasty-army-navy/

All the best,

Helen

[fastolfrus]

Very cool, but I'm still not sure that I understand where they would be fighting and on who's side.

Personally I think they will make a splendid colonial force to fight against arab slavers, zouaves, mahdists, or assorted natives of a generic origin.

[Schrumpfkopf]

And Afghans, eastern tribes, Indians, Ottomans and Russians.
The army really works from 1806 to 1813. Some units like the Zemburakis and the Cataphracts work for more than 100 years and different nations too.

[starkadder]

You may wish to temper your enthusiasm for this mob.

Read Barbara English's The War for a Persian Lady on how gloriously ineffectual they were.

I love this army and this region but I'm pretty clear-eyed about what they were like.

They would look magnificent on the table and that is good enough, I suppose..

[Tordenskjold]

They would look magnificent on the table and that is good enough, I suppose..

I think you hit the nail on the head 

[starkadder]

I think you hit the nail on the head 

I feel a very similar frisson when I look at the Egyptian army from 1820-1845, Tordenskjold.
I have studied them and Ibrahim Pasha for many years.

It's a great and under-appreciated area. I hope it's a huge success.

[Schrumpfkopf]

Not exactly a European army, yet they were beating the Russians in major engagements while Napoleon in the north had a hard time. The British assistance during these later battles was surely helping.

Also - nobody would do WW2 Poles or French if wargaming was exclusively about their actual battlefield performance I suppose.

And they had beards and mustaches and tall fur hats! 

[cuprum]

Information from Russian sources (English translation available):

http://siberia-miniatures.ru/forum/showthread.php?fid=10&tid=284

And information on the Russian-Persian war:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Persian_War_(1804%E2%80%9313)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Persian_War_(1826%E2%80%9328)

[Tordenskjold]

My god Cuprum, that's amazing stuff! Lovely pictures and illustrations  

Some more readings I've found:
The Persian army in the Napoleonic period and on
Russian deserters in Persian service