The fruits of my work, or: why I hate the Evil Empire ...

[Dewbakuk]

Did Bryan know before-hand that what he was doing was building obsolescence in to the Citadel line of minis?
...Knowing GW/Citadel from it's very beginnings quite well, I know what to think on my part.

See, now that's two very seperate things.......

GW is a company and out to make money, but I would never think that of them (I used to work for them and have my own issues but that wouldn't be one of them).

Bryan Ansell however............ well, if you don't have something nice to say.............

[Ramshackle_Curtis]

I read the article by the Navy dudes,very interesting. If your model contains lead then dont use wood, sand, pva, varnish, plastic(some types)...the list goes on...I mean, basically the onlyway toprotect lead models is to electroplate them! Yay!


Really, very interesting but a rare phenomenon. More pressing is how do I protect my models from being broken when I play with them!? haha....

[archangel1]

I knew about the deterioration of lead parts in cases that were made of acrylic/plexiglass.  One of the explanations I had heard was that the atmosphere inside the case gradually took on the aspect of a miniature electric storm, particularly if the case was constantly being wiped down! I guess the charged particles grounded out through the lead, or something, increasing the rate of decay.  This was from many, many moons ago so I have no idea where the info came from or even if it is true.

[Faust23]

Interesting.  I've been using acrylics since 1982 and have sealed them with a gloss cote finish from Testors then followed with a matte cote after they cured.  I've never had a problem.

I still have the Wardancer Glam from Scarloc's Wood Elf Archers that I bought in 1988.  He's looking just like he did in the eighties.  Wish I could say the same!

However, I have other reasons for being tired of GW.  You can read about it in my latest blog entry here:

http://4sparta.blogspot.com/

Enjoy!

[pnweerar]

So will the P-65 Reaper minis be subject to lead rot?
http://www.reapermini.com/P-65

[oxiana]

Did Bryan know before-hand that what he was doing was building obsolescence in to the Citadel line of minis?

But GW/Citadel was hardly an evil empire in the early 80s was it? It was a relatively small company in a frankly obscure market trying to survive. I'm guessing tin was expensive and Bryan Ansell took an economic decision to tide the company over during the rising costs of materials (also at this time, the UK was only just beginning to come out of a very deep economic recession). These days GW probably buys forward on commodities it needs (as well as currencies) to insure against rising costs, and it probably saves itself a penny or two in the process. I just wish all companies were big enough to do that - in the six months it took recently between realising I needed work done on my roof and actually having the workmen in, the cost of lead for the flashing had gone through the roof due to demand from China. (So if the Chinese ever take to gaming, heaven help the price of minis!)

Anyway, if Bryan Ansell knew then that GW would be the force it is today, he'd be gobsmacked. And he'd be even more gobsmacked that people were still using old Citadel minis 25 years later. I don't think conspiracy theories wash here.

On the other hand, given that a lot of GW custom these days is based on a high turnover of teenage hobbyists, have you heard the rumour that they're now actually introducing the lead-rot toxin into their products so that the minis crumble away just in time for the next WH40K reboot, and you have to buy everything all over again...?

[Admiral Benbow]

So will the P-65 Reaper minis be subject to lead rot?
http://www.reapermini.com/P-65

Only time will tell. Every alloy containing lead CAN get to lead rot if conditions are right. The more lead in the alloy, the higher the risk. But today with all those infos concerning minis on the internet, most people should know how to seal and protect their minis correctly.

What makes me angry when reading about the P-65 formula at the Reaper webpage is all the bullshit they write about this complete turn of mind and that "famous P-65 metal formula". And they are winding themselves like a snake:

>>Q: If this is such a great formula why did you change over to a tin alloy?
A: At the time we launched Dark Heaven, our first tin alloy line, we wanted to remove any possible obstacle the public might have to the new line and all other companies used tin alloys. In other words we didn't want to be different.<<

[Ramshackle_Curtis]

Of all the hobyist I know, none actually seal thier models. Ive been painting since about 86 and have never even seen a model with lead rot!

[Hammers]

So if the Chinese ever take to gaming, heaven help the price of minis!

Metal for must be a minuscle part of the total demand in metals.

[Commander Vyper]

Lovely figure, shame about the rot. If you repaint the sections, then seal with a gloss varnish then purity seal over it you should halt any further oxidation of the lead.

The Commander

[Bako]

Be glad you got to at least paint him first. I've got a lovely handful of minis that've already been ruined before I could even think of painting them .

[sukhe_bator]

I had a batch of 80's Ral Partha Giant Goblins go the same way. I used superglue to reattach the parts and provide a seal, then gloss varnished and then Matt Varnished over that. Touch wood I haven't seen a recurrance.

Not sure there was any malicious intent or predetermined built in obsolescence, just an attempt to cut costs. After all I belive it was largley the hike in Bismuth prices that forced the significant shift to plastics in the early 90's ...

[Cosmotiger]

There were lead soldiers (and lead rot) long before Brian Ansell started GW.  I assume he used the lead-tin alloy ,  because that was just how it had always been done.  I doubt it was any sort of "planned obsolescence" scheme.

[former user]

no question about the highly debatable attitude of GW towards the gaming community

about tin-pest however, I read very different things...
from my knowledge, it comes from the transition of beta to alpha tin and is furthered by low temperatures and aggressive acids, while the addition of lead lowers the occurence of this process (including Antimon and Bismut)

I did start collecting end of the 80es, and also acquired quite some miniatures from earlier releases, including the early citadel ranges. Naturally I never managed to paint all of them, but I always managed to prime them with spray colour. So far not one has desintegrated.

However, I do not know of the aggressivity of the old enamel colours or other spray primers.
Acrylics are rather chemically inert once dried, but enamel primers might attack the metal, especially when the binder is not meant to evaporate quickly as in aerosoles and acts for a more substantial time upon the metal applied to. If evaporating wood resins do start the process, it could very well be that enamel paints do the same, since they use chemically similar binder/solvent. (I heard of resin based enamels occasionally attacking plastic, but this is a different matter)
It also seems that higher temperatures (like in heated rooms) do accelarate the tin-pest once started.
Maybe I was lucky because I never keep my miniatures on display, but stored away in cool basements.

just my thoughts on the matter, sorry to see such a wonderful painted miniature rot away....

Maybe one should ask Bryan Ansell if he has a similar problem, I could imagine that he has the whole range painted and most probably would not have implemented a "time bomb" into Citadel products

[rob_alderman]

people always look for evil in GW.

Mate, I'm sure Bryan Ansell had no idea this would happen, not to mention back then the company was very small.
To have stopped buying their miniatures over such an issue is rather silly. I would suggest filing down the parts that are rotten, painting it quickly and sealing it.

I have to say though, I am worried about some of my earlier GW minis now...