Looking for mini's for the Sudanese Invasion of Abbysinia?

[Atheling]

Hi guys,

I'm looking at running my Sudan project using a three pronged approach.

Firstly there will be the war with the Egyptians/British and then I'm going to delve into the Sudanese Invasion of Abyssinia.

I'm looking for suitable miniatures, The Italy in Abyssinia range from empress seems to be about right, but I'm unsure about the weaponry in terms of the correct rifles etc. I'd really rather not convert a whole army so if anyone can offer any opinions on this I would be very grateful indeed.

Empress range:

http://www.empressminiatures.com/userimages/procart32.htm

Are there any other ranges out there that would be suitable?

a few conversions will obviously be in the pipeline if the range is suitable enough.

Cheers,
Darrell.

[italwars]

Hi guys,

I'm looking at running my Sudan project using a three pronged approach.

Firstly there will be the war with the Egyptians/British and then I'm going to delve into the Sudanese Invasion of Abyssinia.

I'm looking for suitable miniatures, The Italy in Abyssinia range from empress seems to be about right, but I'm unsure about the weaponry in terms of the correct rifles etc. I'd really rather not convert a whole army so if anyone can offer any opinions on this I would be very grateful indeed.

Empress range:

http://www.empressminiatures.com/userimages/procart32.htm

Are there any other ranges out there that would be suitable?


a few conversions will obviously be in the pipeline if the range is suitable enough.

Cheers,
Darrell.

Hello
some few types of Empress miniatures seem moderatly suitable for late 19c Abbissinian Feudal Armies to field VS Dervishes/Egyptians/Italians ..i'm thinking at tribal levies with tradiotonal weapons packs..but , in general, their rifles are a little bit modern to equip more than a very very few chiefs..also their levies sported some "too elegant " appearance including ceremonial shields taht could better associated to chiefs ...the rare images from the Campaign of Adwa in 1896 depict smartly attired chiefs and upper class warriors..and poor  rabble with few firearms..
what else can your purchase:
- Bicorne miniatures in UK: wrong head hair cut if generalised to the whole army and modest design ..but few of them in your army could be OK
- Irregular Miniatures in UK: some custom made minis designed years ago after some info we send them (for 2 open handed subjects ) ..on the small side for today's standards but quite nice
- Askari Miniatures in USA: their "militia" multipose pack is very nice and useful
- Strategia Nova in Italy. fucking horrible sculptings, poor metal a few interesting types
- Falcon USA. practically impossible to purchase but a few nice types
- my own ITALWARS range of course  ..maybe again in production in the future..i could still have some few stock
http://quacked.com/image-25-the+abyssinians.htm

any help you could need on this subject i would be glad to help you

[Atheling]

Hello
some few types of Empress miniatures seem moderatly suitable for late 19c Abbissinian Feudal Armies to field VS Dervishes/Egyptians/Italians ..i'm thinking at tribal levies with tradiotonal weapons packs..but , in general, their rifles are a little bit modern to equip more than a very very few chiefs..also their levies sported some "too elegant " appearance including ceremonial shields taht could better associated to chiefs ...the rare images from the Campaign of Adwa in 1896 depict smartly attired chiefs and upper class warriors..and poor  rabble with few firearms..
what else can your purchase:
- Bicorne miniatures in UK: wrong head hair cut if generalised to the whole army and modest design ..but few of them in your army could be OK
- Irregular Miniatures in UK: some custom made minis designed years ago after some info we send them (for 2 open handed subjects ) ..on the small side for today's standards but quite nice
- Askari Miniatures in USA: their "militia" multipose pack is very nice and useful
- Strategia Nova in Italy. fucking horrible sculptings, poor metal a few interesting types
- Falcon USA. practically impossible to purchase but a few nice types
- my own ITALWARS range of course  ..maybe again in production in the future..i could still have some few stock
http://quacked.com/image-25-the+abyssinians.htm

What a welcome response  . Thanks for all the info. I'll be looking at the company websites that you have proposed tonight and probably get back to you.

any help you could need on this subject i would be glad to help you

And would be very gratefully appreciated. I've got to admit, I'm a bit out of my depth with this particular war but it adds another dimension to my Sudan project so it's worth doing IMHO.

Darrell.

[italwars]

What a welcome response  . Thanks for all the info. I'll be looking at the company websites that you have proposed tonight and probably get back to you.

And would be very gratefully appreciated. I've got to admit, I'm a bit out of my depth with this particular war but it adds another dimension to my Sudan project so it's worth doing IMHO.

Darrell.

Well it's also my favourite period..colonial..and being Italian also considering the poor military performances of my countrymen in those lands during the 19 c. i still enjoy to reserach on the period, collecting, painting and playing the period in 28mm with TSATF (practically unknown in my country)
spaeking about the Abyssinians and the Dervishes in Italian zone of influence..i experimented wiht two games recently..the Abyssinian Army in wargame therms seems, apparently, a very good balanced army with an high proportion of firearms and a not neglectable cavalry compared to the Mahdists..but in fact..their firepower marksmanship is low (similar to zulus) and the both cavalry and masses of infantry lack the élan and fanatism typical of tribesmen..you'v to consider huge masses trying to logorat at short ranges their ennemies before, reluctantly, close in...
On the other hand, the victorious Mahdist Armies invading Eritrea without even imagining that they will be stopped by few hand picked Italian Arskaris ..where considerably well equipped...many rifles where left on the battlefield after their defeats at kassala and Agordat...also, the quasi totality of them where dressed like later type Ansars with patches and not the iconic fuzzy wuzzy of the battles VS Anglo-Egyptians....the role and ammount of cavalry during Eritrean invasion was important..they almost whipped out and annhitilated, in a series of charges and counter charges , our only Native Eritrean  Cavalry Lancer Squadron ("the Hawkfeathers") killing  their eroic commander

[Atheling]

Well it's also my favourite period..colonial..and being Italian also considering the poor military performances of my countrymen in those lands during the 19 c. i still enjoy to reserach on the period, collecting, painting and playing the period in 28mm with TSATF (practically unknown in my country)
spaeking about the Abyssinians and the Dervishes in Italian zone of influence..i experimented wiht two games recently..the Abyssinian Army in wargame therms seems, apparently, a very good balanced army with an high proportion of firearms and a not neglectable cavalry compared to the Mahdists..but in fact..their firepower marksmanship is low (similar to zulus) and the both cavalry and masses of infantry lack the élan and fanatism typical of tribesmen..you'v to consider huge masses trying to logorat at short ranges their ennemies before, reluctantly, close in...
On the other hand, the victorious Mahdist Armies invading Eritrea without even imagining that they will be stopped by few hand picked Italian Arskaris ..where considerably well equipped...many rifles where left on the battlefield after their defeats at kassala and Agordat...also, the quasi totality of them where dressed like later type Ansars with patches and not the iconic fuzzy wuzzy of the battles VS Anglo-Egyptians....the role and ammount of cavalry during Eritrean invasion was important..they almost whipped out and annhitilated, in a series of charges and counter charges , our only Native Eritrean  Cavalry Lancer Squadron ("the Hawkfeathers") killing  their eroic commander

Thanks. Interesting stuff. Do you know of any literature on the Sudanese/Abyssianian campaings in English at all?

Darrell.

[italwars]

Thanks. Interesting stuff. Do you know of any literature on the Sudanese/Abyssianian campaings in English at all?

Darrell.

the kind of litterature, with a minimal of technical military value,  that can interest us wargamers/amateur military historians on this sideshow topics (Sudanese invasion and clashes VS Italalians and Ethiopians) is , for what i know, non existent ..except an extremely rare Italain antiquarian book from 1935 that i own "Le Campagne Coloniali Italiane" by Gen. Ambrogio Bollati and a very good on line article on Italian/Mahdist battle..it's in Italian but, at least, you 'll find good ready to be transfered on tabletop, battle maps

http://www.arsmilitaris.org/pubblicazioni/dervisci.pdf

specifically on Mahdists/Abbyssinian clashes i only see, many yeras ago when i was preparing my University thesis, some nver touched and unpublished archive material, with hand-drawn maps and Toes at the "Istituto Italo-Africano" in Rome..if only i had time to dedicate some time in research..that material should still be there
Finally..the only source in English i can suggest is a very enjoyable and useful wargame scenarios booklet edited by Mark Fastoso ...it comprises a good introductions, battle orders and many good historical scenarios for TSATF...3 or 4 of which deal with Dervishes VS Ethiopians and Italians..the rest are dedicated to the Italian Colonial Army Vs Ethiopians..the biography, in English, is quite scanty..but, overall, it seem a good and useful work
here you'll find a demo scenario from the book:
.http://home.comcast.net/~tsrstevew/Dabormida/dabormida.pdf

[Atheling]

the kind of litterature, with a minimal of technical military value,  that can interest us wargamers/amateur military historians on this sideshow topics (Sudanese invasion and clashes VS Italalians and Ethiopians) is , for what i know, non existent ..except an extremely rare Italain antiquarian book from 1935 that i own "Le Campagne Coloniali Italiane" by Gen. Ambrogio Bollati and a very good on line article on Italian/Mahdist battle..it's in Italian but, at least, you 'll find good ready to be transfered on tabletop, battle maps

http://www.arsmilitaris.org/pubblicazioni/dervisci.pdf

specifically on Mahdists/Abbyssinian clashes i only see, many yeras ago when i was preparing my University thesis, some nver touched and unpublished archive material, with hand-drawn maps and Toes at the "Istituto Italo-Africano" in Rome..if only i had time to dedicate some time in research..that material should still be there
Finally..the only source in English i can suggest is a very enjoyable and useful wargame scenarios booklet edited by Mark Fastoso ...it comprises a good introductions, battle orders and many good historical scenarios for TSATF...3 or 4 of which deal with Dervishes VS Ethiopians and Italians..the rest are dedicated to the Italian Colonial Army Vs Ethiopians..the biography, in English, is quite scanty..but, overall, it seem a good and useful work
here you'll find a demo scenario from the book:
.http://home.comcast.net/~tsrstevew/Dabormida/dabormida.pdf

Thankyou. I'll read the booklet tonight. Should be interesting anyway even without the Sudanese.

Darrell.