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Author Topic: Indian Pioneers/Sapper and Miners for TSATF wargame in general  (Read 2051 times)

Offline italwars

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Indian Pioneers/Sapper and Miners for TSATF wargame in general
« on: January 22, 2015, 09:02:21 AM »
Hello
i think that here is the better board to post and hope to recive a suggestion from those British expert on NWF Wargame...
i understand that Pioneers and Sapper and Miners were different units in the Indian Army during NWF warfare...i have the possibility of getting some specific minis from Eureka..some of which are depicted with shovel in hands..other are simple musket/carbine's armed guys with an engineer tool to stick on their back...my idea was to organise them on wargame therms..
am i wrong, from an historical point of view, if i organise the types brandishing a musket and with tool on their back as a full unit..say 20 miniatures for a platoon or company and use them as normal infantry?..where they in this case pioneers or sappers and miners?..any historical examples of those units in combat action?
the other poses, at work with their tools in hand, oviously could be an engineer section for specific tasks (clearing a pass/ a stronghold entrance, constructing a sangar, destroying a Pathan turret)...how many for a TSATF unit?..maybe just 5 casting?   again should i call them and have a research for Pioneers or Sapper and Miners?
thanks in advance

Offline Plynkes

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Re: Indian Pioneers/Sapper and Miners for TSATF wargame in general
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2015, 10:55:59 AM »
I'm not sure they would have been marching about with their tools on their backs. Photographs from the period show them carrying only the equipment of a normal infantryman, with their tools being transported on racks carried by mules. Can't absolutely rule it out, though. Circumstances may have demanded it on occasion.

I can think of one combat example off the top of my head. F Company, Queen's Own Madras Sappers and Miners saw action in the Sudan, against Osman Digna's Beja tribesmen. They were in the thick of the action at the battle of Tofrek where an unfinished zariba fortification was attacked. They seem to have performed well against the dreaded Dervishes, in a very confused and hectic situation.


I'm afraid I'm not familiar enough with the Sword and the Flame to be any help regarding specific rules matters.

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Upon our prey we steal...

Offline Mad Guru

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Re: Indian Pioneers/Sapper and Miners for TSATF wargame in general
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2015, 11:11:38 AM »
Italwars,

I'm in the USA not UK, but I am a long-time Second Afghan War/NWF miniature gamer and for better or worse I probably spend more of my time reading and researching than actually gaming, so I will venture to add my two cents/pence...

YES, go ahead and raise full units of PIONEERS and/or SAPPERS & MINERS.  There were some differences between the two troop types, but they could accomplish many of the same tasks.  

Pioneers were raised in Regiments of at least one battalion and those battalions were often assigned as part of a larger force (Brigade, "Field Force"/Division) and fought in various battles, such as the 23rd Bengal Native Infantry (Pioneers), later known as the 23rd Sikh Pioneers, which fought at Peiwar Kotal, Charasiab, and Kabul during the Second Afghan War.  Pioneers specialised in clearing obstacles, building bridges, building or improving roads, etc.

Sappers & Miners were raised in Company size units, such as No. 7 Company Bengal Sappers & Miners, which fought at Charasiab and Kabul (each of the three Presidency Armies -- Bengal, Madras, and Bombay -- maintained Sapper & Miner companies).  They specialised in the same sort of construction and destruction as Pioneer regiments but with added expertise in the use of explosives for clearing obstacles, breaching fortifications and destroying buildings.  In reality I beleive these distinctions in the units' ablities related more to their predecessors from the 18th and earlier 19th Centuries, and by the time of the Second Afghan War of 1878-1880 they were more alike than they were different.  British officers serving in both types of units but especially the Sappers & Miners often came from the Royal Engineers.

As Plynkes points out, both troop types could be and often were employed in a standard infantry role, where they usually performed very well, maintaining something of an "elite" reputation.  For instance, at the Battle of Maiwand in July 1880, the half-company of No. 2 Company Bombay Sappers and Miners which were present were said to have fought very well under terribly difficult circumstances.  Some gamers give Sapper & Miner companies bonuses for being elite Indian troops, as they would also give Gurkha and certain Sikh units.

If you do some Google Image searches you should find some photos and illustrations of both 19th Century Bengal/Bombay/ Madras Pioneers and Sappers & Miners.  I myself have a unit of the Eureka figures you mention.  They come in two versions, Sikhs and Punjabis -- who can also be used as Bombay or Madras Sappers & Miners, as well as Pioneers if you want to use them as such.  The two different troop types carried pretty much the same tools and were certainly armed with the exact same rifles, be they Snyder-Enfields during the 1870s and 1880s, or Martini-Henrys in the 1890s.

As far as unit size for TSATF... well, that depends on how you think of your standard TSATF 20-figure basic units.  If you see them as "Platoons" and are playing the game at more of a skirmish level, then you can certainly raise full 20-figure units of either Pioneers or Sappers & Miners, but if you see the 20 figure basic units as stand-ins for Battalions -- as some, including myself, have been known to do -- then you could raise full units of Pioneers but should stick with smaller size units of Sappers & Miners, since the largest unit they'd have would be a single company.  For Maiwand I use a 10 figure unit of those Eureka Punjabi Pioneer figures to represent the half-company of Bombay Sappers & Miners, which I freely admit is WAY TOO MANY figures historically speaking, but since the British have the odds stacked so high against them that doesn't bother me.  In truth, a smaller number, such as the 5 figures you suggest, or maybe 6, to represent a full company might work well.  Right now I'm preparing the terrain and troops for a Battle of Charasiab game and plan to use 6 of those same figures to represent No. 7 Company Bengal Sappers & Miners.  At the actual battle No. 7 Company was assigned as the infantry escort for two Gatling Guns which the British had with them.

Game-wise, Pioneers and Sappers & Miners are great for scenarios involving punitive expedition objectives for the Anglo-Indians such as destroying a Tribal tower or fort or some other valuable piece of terrain -- caving in a mine, burning crop-fields, destroying irrigation canals and flooding surrounding crops, etc.  The only figures able to accomplish these tasks will be the Pioneers or Sappers & Miners, so the British commander should take care they don't suffer too many casualties before they reach the objective and are able to accomplish the mission.

Plynes is correct in saying that most of the time Pioneers and Sappers & Miners did not carry their tools into battle on their backs, but when the occassion called for it, they did.  At charasiab for instance, the 23rd Bengal Native Infantry (Pioneers) started the day on a mission to prepare the road throught the Sang-i-Nawishta gorge North to Kabul so that wheeled artillery could use it.  In that case they would certainly have taken their tools with them, though whether or not they kept them on their backs after the shooting started is another question.  For myself, I like my Pioneer/Sapper unit with their picks or shovels on their backs, since it instantly identifies them as such, but I certainly admit that in purely historical terms, it's more likely that on the NWF or in Afghanistan those tools would have been with the pack mules and/or pack camels.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 11:25:54 AM by Mad Guru »
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Offline italwars

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Re: Indian Pioneers/Sapper and Miners for TSATF wargame in general
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2015, 02:58:45 PM »
thanks a lot Plinkies and Mad Guru...your very kind and extremely well exposed suggestions are gold for me..
mr Guru..i know you live in USA cause i read everything you write on TMP and this forum concerning NWF wargame and military history for which you're my first mondial authority..in fact i was hping that you read my posting..
your suggestions solve totally my doubts...i was asking that because i get an offer at good price form a wargamer abroad of those figures among others and i had the necessity to understand how much should i need to buy...so  i'll buy and definitvly organise a 20 casting units of "Pioneers" with iconic image of tools at their back (remenber also your suggestion of adding a blanket..milliput or Empress)..i'll rate them better in TSATF therms... and, a "working specialised party" of figures brandishing their tools as depicted in Eureka subjects...they will be called "Sapper and Miners" .in this case no more than 5/8 figures just to do engineer jobs as related in a TSATF rule amendment i saw in the The Sun Never Set additional rules...
do you please confirm me is a good solution?
well..afterall i'll have practically everything for the Indian Army..including  4 Plastic Elephants to use as eventual heavy guns carriers and one to put with chains as a poor heavy duties elephant  near my sappers as seen in a nice Toys Soldiers Vignette
thanks again

Offline Mad Guru

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Re: Indian Pioneers/Sapper and Miners for TSATF wargame in general
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2015, 08:06:27 PM »
Italwars, your plan sounds good to me, and thanks for your kind words.  Funny you mentioned it, I do still have a collection of Empress bedrolls from their Anglo-Zulu War "Accessories" pack, set aside in case I ever raise a second unit of Sappers & Miners/Pioneers.  If you do use them with the Eureka figures I strongly encourage you to post some pics for the rest of us to see!

 

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