30 quid for a single plastic WoTR figure anyone?

[Malamute]

Are you sure its not one of Bugsda's

[Ray Earle]

Are you sure its not one of Bugsda's

He charges twice that. 

[Cubs]

I could swear that the painter is our own very talented Cubs... correct me if im wrong

Nah, I don't think it's cubs. Style is completely different.

Not guilty.

I've sold for a lot more than that on eBay!

[Ray Earle]

Not guilty.

I've sold for a lot more than that on eBay!

I should hope so too. A man of your talents.. 

[theoldschool]

A full-time painter i.e someone making a living from their work and not painting the odd figure for beer and fag money, has to base their minimum charges on an hourly rate. The painter has to cover the mortgage (or rent). heating, food, clothing and transport along with everything else that that adds to the cost-of-living. He/she then needs to work out how many figures can be painted in an hour/day/week and do the sums to come to a minimum cost per figure to live on.

Call it what you may, but it's still an hourly rate by any other name. I've commissioned designers, photographers, copy writers, translators and others for many years and most have a cost based on a daily rate plus extras.

Call out a plumber, electrician, painter or joiner and you get charged an hourly rate, and it's not a fiver an hour.

The figure is nicely painted, not to the standards of some of the better known names, but then again you won't see much change out of £40+ for their work. Mike McVey's painted figures regularly sell for $300 to $600.

If you commission a figure painter you are paying for their time and skill. Usually because you don't have the either the time or skill to do it yourself.

I am often asked to paint figures only to be met with surprise when I quote a price and a reply along the lines of "I never pay more than £5". Try saying that to a plumber next time you call one.

Apologies for the rant.

[Bugsda]

Has the world gone completely bonkers?!

I know, just last week some bastard wanted to charge me 90 quid to fill two teeth, 30 minutes work tops. 

[Captain Blood]

Try saying that to a plumber next time you call one.
Apologies for the rant.

I understand that point of view, Pat, but fear we're not going to agree on this one... 

Whilst (in the UK anyway) plumbers, plasterers, electricians and other crafty tradesmen in short supply have somehow succeeded in persuading the population that they're worth £50 or £60 per hour; and dentists have managed to command £100 an hour (not to mention professional footballers ten grand an hour and so on), painted wargames figures just do not generally have that perceived high value. Unless, that is, they are painted by a 'name' to an exceptional standard - or perhaps are a particularly complicated or particularly expensive raw figures in the first place...

Maybe this is right, maybe it's wrong, and maybe things are changing - which is why this guy can charge £30 for a decent paint job on a very simple-to-paint, very inexpensive original figure...

Of course everybody in the world would like to be paid on an hourly rate if they could get away with it - it's a surefire way of getting paid more. But painted wargames figures have never been successfully sold on that basis. Precisely because the time it takes to paint to a very high standard would just be ridiculously high if charged that way, compared to what a wargames figure is actually worth. So painted figures are priced on how desirable the end product is - not the time taken to achieve it.

All I'm saying is, on that basis, for the end product here, 30 quid is an eye-watering price for one simple, inexpensive plastic figure.
But, I will again agree, that if someone's prepared to pay that eye-watering price, then clearly there's a market. So who am I to cry 'bonkers'. (Even though I firmly believe it to be so).

[theoldschool]

painted wargames figures just do not generally have that perceived high value. Unless, that is, they are painted by a 'name' to an exceptional standard - or perhaps are a particularly complicated or particularly expensive raw figures in the first place...

I completely agree with you Richard. For whatever reason, there seems to be a reluctance to pay a realistic price for painted figures. Even though the same people will happily shell out for high golf club membership and green fees or a season ticket for their footie club. I should add that I see a difference between commission painting or painting to sell and shifting painted figures. I generally charge around half the price for figures I sell off compared with what I would charge to paint

I have no idea why the perceived value is low. Maybe, as you say, it is supply and demand. A lot of gamers who found themselves out of work turned to painting and of course there was the increase of overseas painting services. At least two of the full-time painters I know had to give up, they just couldn't make ends meet.

Forgot to add: There is also a significant difference in what single figures sell for compared to units. I suspect that whoever bought the figure in question for £30, might be less inclined to spend £600 for a 20-figure unit.

[Mr.J]

I have to agree, looking at his other figures they are incredibly nicely painted, better than I could myself but personally I wouldn't spend that much. Especially, as mentioned, on a plastic miniature that costs pence to buy.

[Captain Blood]

Not sure, but I think it's something to do with the hobby mentality and the crossover between hobby and income. People spend vast amounts of time, skill and ingenuity on hobbies, which you could never possibly charge that amount for.
I remember putting on high quality amateur open air theatre at a particular third party venue - a well established visitor attraction. The boss of the venue was gobsmacked by the huge amount of manpower, time and skill he saw going into every aspect of the production, tech, wardrobe, staging, music, admin, management, never mind the actors. He remarked: 'If you had to pay for the time and capabilities of all these people and resources, it would cost tens of thousands of pounds - and you get it all for free'.
The answer to which, of course, is that's because people enjoy it and get something much more important than money from doing it.

It's perhaps a not dissimilar case. If all the people involved there had decided to turn professional, and you had to actually pay what it cost for their time, no-one could afford to buy theatre tickets. Which is why many people in professional theatre are also so miserably paid.

Wargamers are amatuers in the true sense of the word. They do it for love and have a 'do it for love' attitude. They invest disproportionate amounts of time and skill into painting figures, making terrain etc. You could not afford that time if you had to pay for it.
So when people decide to try to switch to make a living wage out of a hobby which is largely powered by love and not money - there's the problem. It's not an economic model most wargamers recognise or want to engage with.

[theoldschool]

The fact the figure is plastic has been raised a few times. I don't really understand why it makes any difference, plastic or metal they take the same time and level of skill to paint.

Price-wise a plastic figure from Perry works out at around 45p (give or take) and a metal figure from Front Rank is £1.20 - 75p of a difference.

[SaxonBlackwater]

The fact the figure is plastic has been raised a few times. I don't really understand why it makes any difference, plastic or metal they take the same time and level of skill to paint.

Price-wise a plastic figure from Perry works out at around 45p (give or take) and a metal figure from Front Rank is £1.20 - 75p of a difference.

I think it's a detail thing, or at least that's what I've alway been told by others.

[Dr DeAth]

My guess is that the buyer is a collector of model soldiers, not a wargamer - interested in individual figures not units so maybe the price is less important as he/she's not got to buy 20 of them?

[Bugsda]

My guess is that the buyer is a collector of model soldiers

Yep! This figure is probably going to a US collector of wargames figures, across the pond they are not as tight bothered as you lot 

[Blackwolf]

The painting has it's own intrinsic value separate from the price of the figure; a $20 dollar paint job on a $1 figure is still a $20 paint job and unfortunately vice versa. I would not pay this price,however many people do.I know a young woman(one of the 'names') who charges much more than this,however a friend of mine paints professionally,$10 a figure 28mm,whilst they are not great,they don't look too bad on the table; and he paints a lot of stuff for people who can't paint at all.Horses for courses I guess.
I often think of an analogy in reference to books,you are not paying for the materials that make up the book,you are paying for the content,Shakespeare is still Shakespeare et cetera,and then people will bang on about the cost of postage for said book,postage is just the means,it has no intrinsic value other than the delivery method of the book.This of course is all very subjective and I am as usual being slightly obscure and in my final conclusion I have only this to say;
            I wish I could paint as well as this