How to think about low-level armed conflict in the ancient world?

[Longstrider]

So perhaps a bit of a weird question, but when I think about ancients, what comes to mind are either big battles of the chariot ages, or massed legions of Romans or phalanxes of Greeks fighting other massed armies raised by well organised rival empires, or teeming hordes of hairy barbarians from the north. I suppose song of Shadows and Dust and the like also evoke gang wars in Rome (and presumably there were similar sorts of urban street skirmishes, palace coups, and the like elsewhere.

But what about everywhere else? What did smaller Greek cities do to hound off bandits if their respective leagues were busy with other stuff? How did disputes over farmland and the like get solved? Did groups of Mesopotamians or Chinese get together some local toughs to go bust heads with the chaps who lived a few leagues south because they kept trying to steal women/poach land/rustle cattle?

I guess I'm trying to think of what sorts of scenarios and what sorts of figures would make sense for relatively bronze and iron age games played on small tables* - between 2x2 and 4x4 feet with either 15mm or 2Xmm figures. There's obviously the capacity to draw from myths and legends (and between OGAM and possibly Brink of Battle, and maybe Iron & Honour, I can use rules that run the gamut from just being a bunch of herders who get a bit riled up to having Athena herself turn up).

*And yes, I'm sure there are plenty of mass battles rules that are designed for or can be hacked to use small table footprints, and I do like the pageantry of a 6mm or 10mm army, but I'm looking for something that'll give me the chance to paint individual figures who will run about as individual figures.

Thanks all!

[rumacara]

Of course that´s possible.
There is an endless variety of scenarios we can do/use in almost every historical or not period.
On the 18th century you have highlanders raiding each other and fighting internal conflicts between rival clans. Just to name one example.

In the bronze age period you can do several scenarios with just 10 or 15 figures per side and also use civilians as characters if you want.
First rule in our hobby is to have fun, either playing with hundreds of miniatures or just with 10.
You can also create a roleplay for that period if you like it.

By putting your questions you are already saying several possible scenarios for enjoyabble games.

Go for it.

[levied troop]

Sounds perfectly feasible to me - almost any skirmish scenario written for any period can be adapted to any other, just change the goods they are fighting over.  Herding animals off-table as part of a fighting retreat is always great fun.

The assumption I'd make is that big battle equipment wouldn't be used (or not greatly used).  The big hoplite shields would be left behind, your boys won't form up in the pike/spear/pointy stick block but will prefer short stabby things and smaller shields, manouverability would be key.  For village based raiding, perhaps more slings than bows?  Women throwing rocks and wielding frying pans would also be a key defence unit 

[S_P]

Agree with the above really- it's the same approach I'm going to take with my own Ancients gaming. Planning to base it around Thracians to start with.

[Melnibonean]

Saga.

[rumacara]

Both Saga and song of Shadows and Dust are ok for squirmish games.

[Valerik]

But what about everywhere else? What did smaller Greek cities do to hound off bandits if their respective leagues were busy with other stuff? How did disputes over farmland and the like get solved? Did groups of Mesopotamians or Chinese get together some local toughs to go bust heads with the chaps who lived a few leagues south because they kept trying to steal women/poach land/rustle cattle?

Try THIS LAF thread for quick rules & a brilliant scenario!!

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=54835.0

Proper Punic Pulp this!!

Roma Victa looks loads of fun, and translatable to other cultures, geography & peoples.

Valerik

"The cheaper the crook, the gaudier the patter."
 Samuel Spade

[Longstrider]

Thanks for the all suggestions. I think Saga would work quite well - I've got the C&C book and some Andalusians for it, but between the variety of battle boards and fan-made ones I'm sure something that suits my vision of sheep thievery and beefing over turf could be put together. The way the battle-boards work though, seems like it would be more suitable for more mythic elements turning up.

The thread linked about Roma Victa was some serious inspiration, and I'm sure after I work up some sets of figures I can rustle up a couple of friends for a fun little romp like that.

Which brings be around to figures - I think the suggestion on slings is very good - I'd imagine lots of peasant types would be able to put slings together. What about other things though? I don't even know if you could really tell where figures were supposed to be from without some of the distinctive shields, helmets and weapons, so in a way it works wonders, but the main part of my hurdle is chiefly visual. I would think various combinations of tunics, cloaks, and sandals would cover a wide variety of people, maybe with sort of different hairstyles and hats. Putting rules to those figures might be a bit of a problem too, in that if training and weapons aren't going to matter a huge deal, something should make playing one lot of rabble or the other compelling. Different scenario goals obviously, I suppose.

I think I might pick up a box of WGF Numidians, maybe one of the Victrix peltasts, and hopefully with some kitbashing it'll sort me for a ton of chaps with different hairstyles and a variety of weapons (or none at all) in short tunics.

[rumacara]

Using those sets of figures will give you an almost endless possibilities for figures combination.
If you are on a transformation mood check the West Wind metal heads for a greatter variety of heads.

[Metternich]

I'ld just be careful about what troop types you put on the board for a skirmish scenario.  There are main battle-line troops, and then there are skirmishers.  As and example, Helenistic phalangites didn't skirmish - their pikes would have been largely useless in single combat.  The equipment of true Hoplites isn't conducive to skirmishing either - any light skirmisher can easily keep out of the range of their spear thrust (and tire them out by running from them - the Hoplon shield is heavy -  and pelting them with javelines, sling-stones, arrows, what-have-you).  That's why the Greeks, as one example, employed various forms of professional skirmishers  - the Peltast (armed with the lighter, crescent shaped shield, the Pelta, plus javelins), the Thurephori (armed with the oval Celtic Thureos shield, plus a spear and javelins); Thracians; etc.  In the early Republic, the Romans had Velites (and later used various other nationalities troops for their skirmishers). 

[Longstrider]

Yeah, I don't think is the sort of thing to bring out any sort of heavy armoured types or types that really need to be in formation to work. It's why I'm thinking the peltasts rather than the unarmoured hoplites from Victrix - though I don't know whether things like javelins and pelta shields and the like would be kept at home, so to speak. Slings and bows I could certainly see - especially since the latter would be useful for hunting too.

[Metternich]

I would think that the weapons of many of these skirmishers would be their own property and likely would be kept at home.  By way of comparison, Classical Greek Hoplites' shields and weapons were their personal property.