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Author Topic: Late Roman Shield Designs  (Read 4720 times)

Offline ErikB

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Late Roman Shield Designs
« on: March 09, 2015, 04:35:32 PM »
Can someone explain what the meanings are of the late Roman shields? 

Are the ones with faces the Roman/Greek gods?  Pre-Orthodox icons?

And who carried the Chi Rho?  Was it just that one time with Constantine?  Or did it become tradition across the Roman Empire, both East and West?

I see Arthurian minis with that symbol.  Did it make its way there?

Thanks, and please forgive my ignorance of this portion of history.

Offline Mad Doc Morris

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Re: Late Roman Shield Designs
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2015, 05:35:45 PM »
Okay, first off my usual devastating news: Nothing's set in stone with Ancient uniforms. :D

Seriously, you are free to choose. There is this pretty book called Notitia Dignitatum containing all kinds of fancy shield designs and whatnot. However, it got copied several times from sources nowadays lost, and probably quite a few errors were made in the process. Some glaring enough to become apparent even today. The original meaning of these designs – if there was any – is lost on us. Those faces you mentioned are most likely gods or spirits (lares), perhaps resembling the Aegis, a shield showing the face of Medusa. As such they were meant to either terrify the enemy or provide divine protection to the shield bearer.

IIRC, though, there are surprisingly no Christian symbols in the Notitia. Maybe Constantine's soldiers were unique in painting Chi Rho onto their shields, and maybe it became a story therefore in the first place? We don't know. Maybe there are other sources, but other than Byzantine ones I can think of none at the moment.

The Romans left Britain as a Christianised country. It's just a popular story that the so called Saxon invasion could have reversed that process. But that's a different discussion. ;) Anyway, if any Roman soldier had ever covered his shield in Christian symbolism, his "Arthurian" successors were more than able to do the same.

Just don't despair. It's all up to you. Splendid opportunity! 8)

Offline ErikB

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Re: Late Roman Shield Designs
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2015, 06:11:01 PM »
Thanks for the answer, Buddy.

I'm wondering - were shields usually standardized within the same century?

Or whole cohort, legion, what group tended to have the same image?

Where was the standardization?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 06:37:05 PM by ErikB »

Offline Mad Doc Morris

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Re: Late Roman Shield Designs
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2015, 07:01:52 PM »
Where was the standardization?

Short answer? There was none.

Slightly longer answer: If there was one, we don't know about it. ;)

Another edit for the wargamer's perspective: I feel there's an agreement to depict standard Roman troops with one shield design per unit, whatever that unit may represent. The poorer their quality the more rag-tag and less unified in appearance they become.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 07:31:02 PM by Mad Doc Morris »

Offline julesav

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Re: Late Roman Shield Designs
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2015, 10:12:44 AM »
I'm sure that 'Notitia Dignitatum' is available on the net.

I have the Wargames Research Group book 'Armies and Enemies of Imperial Rome' and it has black and white images of the ND shields with colour notes for both common colouration variants (from the two slightly different historical copies).

Roman kit was 'factory made' so it's likely that patterns were common to units or sub-units. That of course would only apply to units still 'in supply' from Imperial factories.
"Some scientists say that humans exhibit a behavior called neophilia, which is a preference for new objects. It’s why we like shiny new things."

Offline duhamel

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Re: Late Roman Shield Designs
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2015, 11:42:37 AM »
I have a few planks of the notitia dignitatum shields on the West and East if it can help you I can scan them and send them in mp  ;)
“Le courage consiste à avoir peur mais à continuer tout de même.”

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\" The courage consists in being afraid but in continuing all the same. \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"

Offline ErikB

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Re: Late Roman Shield Designs
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2015, 03:58:52 PM »
Thanks, that's really nice of you.

I have ordered 16 cavalry and 32 foot-guys from Musketeer.  I can do the shields last but I had better start figuring out a theme.

I'd love to see what you have.   :)

Offline guitarheroandy

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Re: Late Roman Shield Designs
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2015, 05:41:06 PM »
To be fair, the Notitia designs are not definitely what the troops would have carried on campaign - we simply assume that from the fact that they are 'shield shaped' in the document. They may have been 'parade insignia', or they may have been used in combat. We don't know. What we do know from modern re-enactment is that shields get damaged very quickly in action and its highly unlikely that Roman armies included artists to reproduce the complex designs on replacements in the field.

Having said that, most gamers use those designs and you'll certainly find shield transfers for some of the designs. They do look great on the table, that's for sure!!

Offline westwaller

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Re: Late Roman Shield Designs
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2015, 05:51:07 PM »
I know next to nothing about this subject but I did notice in this months BBC History Magazine that Amberley publishing are advertising a

book called 'Roman Shields' by Hilary & John Travis that might be of interest. Although it is £25.00...Ouch!

Offline whill4

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Re: Late Roman Shield Designs
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2015, 05:53:16 PM »
Whether or not the shields were painted this way or not will be argued forever. My take is that in general gamers have an expectation that the shields would be painted. So I paint them. Also, some of the designs just look really cool and I want them painted on my figures.

Here is a link for Notitia Digntatum.

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sarson/NotitiaPatterns.html
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 05:56:27 PM by whill4 »

Offline Mad Doc Morris

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Re: Late Roman Shield Designs
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2015, 06:22:45 PM »
guitarheroandy is right, shields get damaged easily by anything. However, I'm not convinced that this would necessarily prevent soldiers from elaborately painting these pieces of equipment. Because Roman soldiers in particular loved to embellish their equipment just to show off – another fact easily confirmed by reenactors. :D
Besides, as modern people, highly specialised, always on the run, we tend to underestimate the skills one can develop if he’s got a lot of time to waste. For a large part Roman soldiery seems to 've been rather surviving camp life than surviving battles, so better keep your hands busy.

Anyway, like said, the wargaming route™ is an abstraction, but it's a pragmatic and viable one. Unless someone digs up the Junior Woodchucks Guidebook to the Ancient World, that is. ;)

Offline bigredbat

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Re: Late Roman Shield Designs
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2015, 07:52:54 PM »
I have heard it suggested that the faces depict barbarian heads on a stake!  I think those are my favourites.  :-)



If you've not come across Luke Ueda-Sarson's Notitia site, that is the best one.

http://lukeuedasarson.com/NotitiaPatterns.html


Offline ErikB

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Re: Late Roman Shield Designs
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2015, 05:50:42 PM »
I've made shields, covered them with linen, put on a few layers of glue to hold it together, edged with rawhide, and then tested with sharp swords (modern steel, not antiques).  The shield gets cut up quickly, it's true, and against something with weight the sure do get smashed up, usually from the edge inwards, it seems.

That cloth and glue is an amazing combination.

I can totally see guys embellishing their shields while bored at camp or even being ordered to match a certain design for the whole unit with some design that is actually not trivial to make.  It keeps them out of trouble for a while and instills attention to detail (side note: apparently the French Foreign Legion has their guys spending hours getting a crease just right on a shirt and, of course, their teeth kicked out if they are off by a millimeter).

So I can easily see hastily created shields when there's not a lot of time and very elaborate ones when there is time and the officers need to keep the troops busy and out of trouble.

I guess anything goes for these minis, huh...?   :)

 

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