east india company help

[summsi]

Hi,

did the east india companies (english, dutch,...) use indian sailors or did they only use europeans? Another question is, if the moghuls used european sailors, too? Time period 1690 to 1720

I am asking, because I want to use my foundry pirates together with my DA baluchi matchlockmen.

[Will Bailie]

My understanding is that ships' captains would use whatever crew they could get their hands on!  Sailors would be killed or maimed with such frequency that the captains were continually recruiting (or impressing) new men.  I'm not certain about the 1690-1720 period, but Napoleonic era stories are full of references to ships returning from the Indies with Malays and other 'exotic' sailors aboard.

The Moghuls had a history of recruiting European soldiers for their land armies.  I don't know for sure if they recruited European sailors, but it would only make sense that they did.

[Plynkes]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lascar

[Hammers]

Shit. I was just, casually like, let you know they they had and they were called laskars but Plynkes beat me to it.

[starkadder]

...and for some obscure reason, in English fiction for the period,  they are almost always given the description of "swarthy" as in "the swarthy lascar smiled".

Ahh, the casual racism of it all...

[Plynkes]

They could have picked a better name, though. It just sounds like some kind of futuristic motor sport, rather than something from colonial history.

LASCAR: NASCAR with Lasers!

[summsi]

did the EIC only have trading ships or also war ships?

did they use privateers where I can also use some indian sailors?

[Plynkes]

The East India Company had a navy, known for much of its history as "The Bombay Marine." It later became "Her Majesty's Indian Navy" and it still exists today (though it was split in two) as the Indian and Pakistani Navies.

[starkadder]

did the EIC only have trading ships or also war ships?

Not that much of a distinction between them. A large ship is a major investment and the HEIC were very prone to market forces. Therefore the larger vessels were capable of a lot of different things. The strategic thought of the times in the Indian Ocean was as much around the capability of delivering trade goods and troops as having a lot of iron to throw around.

It's about physics, arithmetic and logistics. A big round-sterned East Indiaman had the capacity to do all three essentials - merchant, troopship and gun platform. It was more economic that way rather than having a dedicated "warship" fleet. Remember that the physics of it are that the bigger the ship the more cannon can be mounted and, because of the paradox of sail area, the faster a well designed large ship can go (and the East Indiamen were very well designed). It's also safer in storms.

The logistics of organising crews were more problematic. The Royal Navy had the right to sequester crew from HEIC vessels. This often led to creative tensions such as giving them (the RN) your worst men or even hiding crew from the RN gangs. A convoy or disciplinary fleet could take months to organise even without the nightmare of the monsoon seasons.

I urge you to read Stephen Taylor's Storm and Conquest: The Battle for the Indian Ocean 1809, (Faber and Faber, 2007). The issues that the Company faced in this year stand for the whole period of their operations.  It's also a great introduction to the thud and blunder of the Indian Ocean theatre.

[carlos marighela]

" Storm and Conquest"

Interesting subject, dreadfully written book but it does make a reasonable fist of pointing out the problems. Read it whilst sequestered in a god awful hotel in Manaus. Endless passages about the civilian personages in the fleets, which I found rather less than enthralling. Long lead up short climax.

Another term you will find cropping up when you read about the EIC is topass. This was a description of Indians with a nominally European heritage, often Portuguese. You find frequent mention of topasses employed as soldiers and sailors, particularly in the early part of the period. Bombay, the first EIC trading post was of course a gift from the Portuguese to Charles II, part of the wedding dowry of Catherine of Braganza. The local Portuguese, however weren't so keen and took a year to recognise their new overlords.

[starkadder]

" Storm and Conquest": Interesting subject, dreadfully written book

A tad harsh, Carlos. Certainly not Tolstoyan in its sweep and colour but a valuable primer. I didn't mind the civilian focus as it makes a lot of the reasoning behind the strategic decisions clearer. Also the simple fact remains that there are many more civilian sources available.

Having suffered through three vols. of Richard Wellesley's Memoirs and Correspondence, (Richard Bentley, London 1846)  there are far worse things to read on the period. (And far less expensive) 

And say what you like, at least it isn't a <gasp> Osprey - one of the more overrated secondary sources in our hobby.  Heh heh, couldn't resist.

[carlos marighela]

Fair enough. Just felt it was a bit long winded without a huge payoff at the end. I would have liked a bit more detail on the fight for Mauritius. No great loss, the book was specifically purchased with 'leave in situ after reading' in mind. Maybe some less fortunate soul is practising their English comprehension skills or using it to prop up a wonky table somewhere along the Amazon as we speak. I kept the other expendable book I had on the history of cocaine use, which, if you'll excuse the pun, was a cracking read.

[starkadder]

I kept the other expendable book I had on the history of cocaine use, which, if you'll excuse the pun, was a cracking read.

Yeah, but there was almost nothing on Bolivar and the Wars of Liberation in it!