Missing rules?

[BugPope]

Hi, I picked up IHMN a couple of months ago since I have a thing for simple skirmish rules and the whole Victorian adventures thing, but after three games, I've run into some pretty big obstacles. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot I like about this system (mainly that it's really fast, and easy to modify) but I keep getting the impression that this was either not playtested before release, or that the author simply forgot to include several really important rules. Or am I missing something?
Here's the rules I can't seem to find anywhere:

1. The section of terrain never actually seem to explain how terrain effects movement. So we've just assumed that level 2 terrain means you "pay" 2 inches for every inch you move and so on. But this is just a guess, since I can't find it in the rules.

2. Objectives, and how you pick them up and move with them. This is quite a big problem, since one of my friends completely lost interest in this game after he managed to get to the objective in the middle of the table in turn 1 and then back to his own table edge at the beginning of turn 2 with one of his African carriers, making for an extremely short game (and since this game makes it very hard to shoot someone in the first couple of rounds, I had no chance of stopping him). We've discussed making some kind of houserule that you can't run while carrying an objective, but there really should be official rules for this.

3. NPCs. Many scenarios in this game involve neutral miniatures that you either have to escort or destroy, but there are no rules for how this works.
Let's start with the escort missions. When can the NPCs move? How far? Do I need to stay in base contact with him? Can he run? What are his stats? I don't know, there are apparently no rules for any of this, not even in the erratas or on the blog. Bad Jack has stats, but he seems to be completely immobile as there are no rules for his movements.

There's probably more, but these are the main issues I've run into. I hope I don't come of as angry or anything, because I really want to like this game, but I have a hard time actually playing it or getting other people interested due to all the random missing rules. Or maybe I'm just missing something, I dunno. Is it something you have written down in your notes but forgot to print, or are the players expected to houserule this? And if it's the latter, does anyone have any good rules for these things?

Other than that, it's a pretty fun game.

[BugPope]

Also, are there any plans to implement the Edison teleporter thing in any of the army lists? It seems like such a fun gadget, but nobody can use it.

[oabee]

To paraphrase the dread pirate Barbossa:  IHMN is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

Or as one of the authors of IHMN famously said: I do like it when people take our work and make it their own.  

So take the rules as "guidelines" and change them as you see fit, as the situation arises.

As to terrain, the rating is the associated penalty, so Type 2 terrain subtracts 2 inches from movement and shooting at someone in Type 2 terrain imposes a -2 on the attack role. Could certain terrain be, say, Type 2 for movement and Type 1 for Shooting? Sure....it's your game.

The authors clearly state that "The key design philosophy has been simplicity." So, no, by design there are no rules for every contingency. House rules are often the, er, "rule," not the exception.

As to the Bring Him Back Alive scenario, here's my take: give the VIP whatever stats you feel are appropriate, befitting his status. The VIP can neither shoot nor fight. The VIP can only move when in base to base contact with a figure, and neither may run. If the "escorting" figure leaves base to base contact, or is taken out, you could handle it a number of ways: 1) The VIP takes a standard move towards the nearest cover, moving as the last figure in the Movement, or 2) the VIP stays in place and does not move, or 3) the VIP moves  a random number of inches (roll a d6) in a random direction, or 4) whatever you want.

[Silbuster]

1. A figure cannot run in terrain. Its normal movement is reduced by the level of the terrain. So level 2 terrain reduces its maximum movement by 2".
2. It's just barely possible to reach the centre of the board (18" away from the nearest point of the edge) if the figure starts 6" in and has speed 2 and has martial arts and there is no terrain between it and the centre. However, that doesn't happen too many times. How did your opponent manage to get from the centre to the edge of the board in one go?
3. I think neutral figures are pluck 6, no armour. We assume they move as per normal but that you have to accompany them in order to get them to do that.
4. Bad Jack is in a building in the centre of the board. He doesn't move. You have to go in and get him. We have played it where he moves randomly using d10 to work out in which direction and how far.

[BugPope]

To paraphrase the dread pirate Barbossa:  IHMN is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

So take the rules as "guidelines" and change them as you see fit, as the situation arises.

I do get that, but there's a difference between keeping the rules light and having half-finished rules, or scenarios that require rules that don't exist. I really don't want to come off as whiny, and I don't really get why people seem to presume that I don't understand the whole KISS thing, but after playing a few games, my main impression of the game is less that it's a foundation to build on and more that it's a first draft that got printed before play testing or proof reading. And I really don't think that is too much to ask for. Especially if it makes the game near impossible to play without extensive houseruling.

And what really confuses me is that the expansions don't try to fix this, or add advanced (or even basic) rules, it's mostly just new army lists. Which seems like really strange priorities to me.

1. A figure cannot run in terrain. Its normal movement is reduced by the level of the terrain. So level 2 terrain reduces its maximum movement by 2".

Where does it say the last part? I've read the chapter over and over and over, and I haven't seen it anywhere.

I don't have a huge gaming table, so mine is about 33'' across.
 
And if Bad Jack is inside a building (does the rules really mention that? I don't have my copy on me right now, but I don't remember that), can I still shoot at him, since the rules seem to treat houses as area terrain?

[oabee]

Where does it say the last part? I've read the chapter over and over and over, and I haven't seen it anywhere.

4.1.1 Difficult Terrain

"Difficult Terrain imposes restrictions on Movement depending on the figure or vehicle type attempting to traverse it...In this game, Difficult Terrain is rated as Type 1, 2, or 3 -- the number corresponds to the level of penalty associated with it."

Ergo, Type 2 Terrain subtracts 2 inches from movement.

[BugPope]

4.1.1 Difficult Terrain

"Difficult Terrain imposes restrictions on Movement depending on the figure or vehicle type attempting to traverse it...In this game, Difficult Terrain is rated as Type 1, 2, or 3 -- the number corresponds to the level of penalty associated with it."

Ergo, Type 2 Terrain subtracts 2 inches from movement.

Ooooh, now I get it. After three months of reading that paragraph over and over again. So the idea is that I'm expected to see the capital M in Movement and understand that it refers to the actual Movement stat of the model, which isn't actually a stat in this game since all humans have the same base movement (not counting Speed)? Holy crap, that's probably the most obscure and vague way they could have possibly put that. See, this is why you should have other people read your rules before you print them.

I'm used to systems based on the Warhammer rules, so I intuitively interpreted that as "every 1 inch of movement inside the terrain counts as 2 inches".

[Dewbakuk]

'The number corresponds to the level of penalty associated with it'

So type 1 costs you 1" extra to move through, Type 2 costs 2" and Type 3 costs 3".

It's written in grammatical English rather than instructional. For a rule book instructional is better.

My books have been borrowed so I can't check but I'm pretty sure Bad Jack does start in a building yes. If you can see him through a window then yes you can shoot him (or the walls of it's a ruin).

The lack of stats/rules for the VIP bugs me hugely, especially as I pointed it out before the book went to print. Silbuster is correct in the intended method though.

[BugPope]

'The number corresponds to the level of penalty associated with it'

So type 1 costs you 1" extra to move through, Type 2 costs 2" and Type 3 costs 3".

See, I didn't get that they meant that I'm supposed to subtract that from the full amount of inches the model moves (6'', normally). And I don't think this is just because I'm used to GW rules, because they really should specify this.

Also, can VIPs fight? Are they affected by Inspiring and other buffs that affect your own team?

The Bad Jack thing worries me, since it seems to imply that the game expects all building models to have interiors and removable roofs, so you can move models around inside them, and keep track on where they stand. And mine don't.

On an unrelated note, it kinda feels like Marksman is pretty overpowered. Maybe it's because I use a lot of jungle and other area terrain (growing up with the Tarzan novels has given me an incurable love for pulpy jungle adventures), but in the games I've played, the side with the most Marksmen always wins. Especially since it cancels out the Stealth skill completely. Might want to either make it more expensive or tone it down a bit, so it reduced the cover penalty instead of removing it completely.

Also, it feels odd that you don't get any bonuses from charging into melee. One would think the momentum and shock effect would count for something, at least.

[Dewbakuk]

See, I didn't get that they meant that I'm supposed to subtract that from the full amount of inches the model moves (6'', normally). And I don't think this is just because I'm used to GW rules, because they really should specify this.

Also, can VIPs fight? Are they affected by Inspiring and other buffs that affect your own team?

In fairness to the authors, it does specify this as that is what the line means, however I completely agree that it should be clearer and an 'example' would have made it simpler for people. You aren't the first to be confused by this.

So as an example, if you move through a thick hedge (Type 2) then you knock 2" of the distance you can move. If you move 3" in a wooded area then you have actually used 5" of movement as it is Type 2 terrain. Once you've got your head around it then it makes for very fast activation and movement as you don't need to track exactly how much of your movement took place in which type of terrain etc, you just take the penalty.

Shooting uses the same set up so Type 1 gives a -1 to hit when shooting through, Type 2 is -2 etc.

So if you were to shoot at Bad Jack through a window across the street then you'd suffer -3 to the shot because you'd be shooting into Type 3 terrain. But at least he hasn't moved

No, the VIP can't fight or benefit from your Buff Talents as he isn't a member of your Company.

[BugPope]

In fairness to the authors, it does specify this as that is what the line means,

I still can't see where they specify this in the paragraph, but thanks for clearing it up for me instead of just acting like I'm too stupid to understand the obvious.

For the record, I also had my dad (who got into wargames back in the early 1980's, so he's a veteran when it comes to deciphering rule books) read through this, and he didn't understand it either. So I'm not so sure that I'm simply an idiot who doesn't understand English, and the rule book is flawless.

By the way, while the highest terrain rating is 3, can Stealth and darkness raise that cover bonus even higher, or does it cap at 3?

[Dewbakuk]

I still can't see where they specify this in the paragraph, but thanks for clearing it up for me instead of just acting like I'm too stupid to understand the obvious.

For the record, I also had my dad (who got into wargames back in the early 1980's, so he's a veteran when it comes to deciphering rule books) read through this, and he didn't understand it either. So it's not simply that I'm an idiot who doesn't understand English.

You're reading and questioning a book in a foreign language, no one thinks you're stupid 

Marksman can be a powerful ability, particularly in Jungle terrain. It does mean assault troops don't have to worry about staying in cover though, it doesn't help them anyway 

If you're playing exclusively in that style of terrain then designate terrain that blocks line of site completely in the same way that buildings would in an urban environment. Doesn't matter if you can shoot the wings off a fly in a snowstorm, you still have to be able to see it in the first place.

Also, change the scenarios to fit what you have terrain wise. So Bad Jack could be in a tribal hut, or a cave, or a really dense patch of Jungle...

[BugPope]

You're reading and questioning a book in a foreign language, no one thinks you're stupid  

Oh right, the problem is that I'm foreign, and thus can't understand English even if I've read it since I was eight years old. Me thank you so much. Me forgot, since me primitive foreigner. Me feedback now invalid, me so sorry.

Seriously though, I appreciate the help and the fact that you at least admit the rulebook isn't flawless, but you people sure love jumping to conclusions about my inability to understand simple concepts like language and basic math.

And I never said that my problem with Bad Jack is that I don't have any houses that fit the jungle theme. Because I do have those, but you can't lift the roofs and keep track on exactly where the figures are standing inside them (so we just remove the figures from the table when they move inside, and then put them back on the table when they leave), which means I can't check if they're standing next to windows or not. So I'll have to make my own rules for it.
Hm... okay, figures can be shot at as if they were in cover, but only if they shot out of the windows during this or the previous turn? Sounds like that would work.

[Dewbakuk]

Oh right, the problem is that I'm foreign, and thus can't understand English even if I've read it since I was eight years old. Me thank you so much. Me forgot, since me primitive foreigner. Me feedback is now invalid, me so sorry.

Seriously though, I appreciate the help and the fact that you at least admit the rulebook isn't flawless, but you people sure love jumping to conclusions about my poor ability to understand simple concepts like language and basic math.

Not sure how I've given offence there but I clearly have so I apologise.

As far as I'm concerned language isn't a simple concept, I had French lessons when I was 11, I can't speak French. I had German lessons at 13, I can't speak German. I know words and phrases in both and can count pretty well but that's about it. I don't care if everyone you know can read and speak English fluently, I can count on one hand the English people I know who are properly fluent in another language. I always find that hugely impressive and slightly embarrassing that I'm not fluent in another language and nor are the majority of my nation.

[BugPope]

Sorry, I get so frustrated when everyone here keep assuming that the problem must be entirely on my side, and most have just dismissed me completely since I'm simply too dumb to understand something so blatantly obvious. And when I get frustrated, I get sarcastic. It's a defense mechanism.

The thing is, when I say I read English, I mean that I've read English almost exclusively for over a decade. As in, I find it harder to read and write in Swedish now. So when someone says that I can't understand English, that's like saying that I can't read at all. And you have to admit that could be interpreted as an insult, even if it wasn't intended as one.

Anyway, I apologize for being so ornery, but I've struggled with deciphering these rules for so long now. And then when people say that this is obvious and that there must be something wrong with anyone who doesn't understand them, I feel like my questions and critique aren't taken seriously. I know I'm making a terrible first impression, but I really would appreciate if the answers could come without the added tone of "if you don't understand, we'll just repeat the part you didn't understand over and over, like if we were training a dog".

I like IHMN, I just think that it could do with a lot of improvements. And that's why I hope that if the author sees this, he will take my feedback seriously, instead of just dismissing it as the confused ramblings of a foreign simpleton. Again, thanks for the help, Dewbakuk, and I appreciate that you actually listened instead of just going "It's KISS, we don't have to explain anything".