British Desert camo 1936?

[Happy Wanderer]

Gents,

I believe the British in Egypt painted their vehicles in a Pale Sand and Red Oxide disruptive pattern paint scheme.

"In 1936 6 RTC Vickers Medium tanks were in BS.52 Pale Cream with a fairly standard disruptive pattern of BS.46 Red Oxide applied".

This is a good link.
http://www.mafva.net/other%20pages/starmer%20camo.htm


I cannot find any colour images or artists impressions of the camo scheme. Does anyone have pics of what the Vickers MkII looked like in this desert camo scheme c1936?

https://flic.kr/p/8ixvpG

Bovington have this pic but 'brown' seems not quite the red oxide I understand the colour to be.

Cheers

Happy W

[Arlequín]

There are some photos here: http://r.xbb2.com/www.throughtheireyes2.co.uk/TANKS-PALESTINE---EGYPT-1936.html
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/39411748@N06/tags/armouredcar/

Looks like it wasn't universally applied, only the tanks and RR armoured cars are depicted in it. The overturned 'Light' for example, appears to be using a paler (or faded) colour too.

Rooting through various online options, I found this: http://usuaris.tinet.cat/maquetas/art1037.htm (the 'No.' at the end of each title corresponds to the British 'BS' ones)

[Happy Wanderer]

Excellent shots.

Between the pics and the BS numbers that should be enough to work off. I'm surprised this camo scheme isn't more easily found online.

Anyway, that's enough to go off....

Cheers


Happy W

[MartinR]

That photo of the parade of Vickers tanks is fairly amazing. The colours on the bovvy light tank look like quite a different scheme (the base isn't pale cream for a start).

In terms of the actual colour match, Mike Starmer is as good as you are going to get. Had a quick look at Humbrol 133 and it really is a dark red colour.

Looking forward to seeing the finished article.

Cheers
Martin

[carlos marighela]

Here you go: Photos that show the scheme including rear angles of the Vickers Mediums in Egypt. The tanks were actually clad in an asbestos cladding to counter the effects of the heat but that's something that can be ignored:

http://www.arcaneafvs.com/6rtc1.html

I'm pretty sure I have seen a colour plate of the scheme somewhere, How accurate it was is anyone's guess.

[Happy Wanderer]

Thanks Guys.

Carlos those pics will do very nicely. Nice link.

Thanks again. When I get my Copplestone tanks done I'll be sure to post a pic or two. 

Happy W

[MartinR]

Excellent. There is photo in David Fletchers 'Mechanised Force' of one of the tanks in its 'raw' asbestos cladding, but it is nice to see them in their actual paint schemes, particularly the turret tops. Something I often struggle with a bit for disruptive schemes.

Cheers
Martin

[Happy Wanderer]

Hi Martin,

Is that mechanised Force book worth getting or is most of what's in there readily available online? Any chance of a pic or two?

Cheers

Happy W

[MartinR]

I'd be amazed if much of the commentary was available online, although some of the photos might.

It is long OOP, but worth every penny imho (I got all three books in the series - Mech Force, The Great British Tank Scandal and The Universal Tank). Amazon has some cheap second hand copies at the moment.

Cheers
Martin

[Vintage Wargaming]

I'd be amazed if much of the commentary was available online, although some of the photos might.

It is long OOP, but worth every penny imho (I got all three books in the series - Mech Force, The Great British Tank Scandal and The Universal Tank). Amazon has some cheap second hand copies at the moment.

Cheers
Martin

Don't forget the volume Moving the Guns, on the mechanisation of the Royal Artillery

[Arlequín]

I'm coming round to the way of thinking that vehicles were only painted up in camo for (potential) active service. In the UK the colour scheme appears to have been single colour green (that semi-gloss dark green some of you might remember from back in the '60s and '70s) until the Munich Crisis, when the two-tone flat green scheme was used. This was also the occasion when Hawker Fury's and Gladiators changed from 'silver' to the Earth and Green scheme of WWII.

Pictures from the Interwar Era show various Mid-East vehicles over the years in what was presumably 'cream' (or 'stone')... but those from 1936 (Abyssinia Crisis), as we have seen have the Red Ochre bands painted over it... at least on the Medium and Light tanks. After that they appear to have gone back to one colour again.

Thoughts folks?   

[carlos marighela]

Not much to think about, that's precisely what happened. The only qualifier I would put on what you said is camouflage for potential large scale conventional warfare against a European foe as opposed to 'active service' . Pretty much all of the photos I've seen of British AFVs and aircraft on active service, in Mesopotamia, Palestine and India show them in a standard peacetime scheme. Not much point when your opponents are tribal forces and not even practised against a more or less regular foe like the Afghans in 1919.

[Arlequín]

I really just wanted a couple of people to tell me I was right really, but couldn't think how to phrase it better. 

It makes sense, but one thing I've learnt about LAF is that there is usually someone about who has specific knowledge on any given (and often mundane) topic, or pictures of something rare and unusual, so it never hurts to ask to confirm or deny something.