About LBMS shield transfers and shields in general

[Verderer]

I am about to use some Little Big Men Studios transfers, and wanted to make sure I get this right. Firstly, do you need a glossy varnish base, like for regular transfers to avoid silvering? The instructions say only to paint shield white, can I trust that?

And secondly, the procedure seems odd to someone who's never used them before. From what I gather from the instructions, you first remove the transparent film, then stick the cut transfer face down (?) on the shield, and then wet it to remove the white backing? So these are kind mirror images on the transfer sheet?

And finally, I first meant to paint the rims of these round shields for Gripping Beast dark age warriors in metallic color, like I am used to with fantasy minis. But the embossed rims are kinda irregular, too irregular for metal I think. And looking at pics of painted minis, it seems the rims are often painted brown by many? So would the rims be wood or leather, or something, rather than metal? And what about ones which have nail heads showing on the rims? What color would you paint them?

[clibinarium]

They are a bit counter-intuitive if you are used to waterslide transfers, but the instructions need to be followed carefully; not that they are difficult but they are somewhat different process. I found I needed a couple of goes before I got it, but when I did its actually easy (I practised on a flat surface first and got it right).
The white surface is essential, as they are slightly translucent, and the background colour will show through certain transfer colours, so they are designed with a white background in mind.

Once you get the hang of it (and you will quickly) you'll get great results.

[Atheling]

This is the sequence.....

1/ White base is best.

2/ Apply transfer.

3/ Leave overnight (or for 24 hours to be extra cautious)

4/ Apply Gloss varnish (I use Vallejo Game Colour Gloss Varnish)

5/ Apply Matt Varnish

Bingo!

Darrell.

[Verderer]

This is the sequence.....

1/ White base is best.

2/ Apply transfer.

3/ Leave overnight (or for 24 hours to be extra cautious)

4/ Apply Gloss varnish (I use Vallejo Game Colour Gloss Varnish)

5/ Apply Matt Varnish

Bingo!

Darrell.

Ok thanks, I assume wetting & removing the white backing comes in stage two?

Also, why's both glossy and matte varnish needed? Just matte won't do?

[Atheling]

Ok thanks, I assume wetting & removing the white backing comes in stage two?

Yeah, sorry, I dap a cpuple of drops of watyer on with my little finger- the trick is to make sure the transfer is good and wet.

Also, why's both glossy and matte varnish needed? Just matte won't do?

To be honest I've never tried it and always played it safe and used gloss. I always use a polyurethane Humbrol Gloss then W&N Matt Professional Acrylic Spray on all of my mini's to get a good flat matt finish (Thanks Jeff    - I used to use HGM Matt Varinish but W&N Spray is superior) .

in the case of using LBM's I'd use the Vallejo Gloss paint on varnish as an extra protective layer to protect the transfer from any adverse effect the polyurethane varnish might have on the transfer.

To be honest, I sometimes wonder if I'd be better off painting the shields myself (ie quicker!). I can get a result at least as good as some LBM's sometimes- see below:

Darrell.

[Verderer]

Alright, thanks again gents. I may try just the matt varnish on some of them, just to compare results. I mean the only difference between matt and glossy is the gloss, right? Why would it matter? Interesting...

I know when using regular transfers, glossy base + transfer + glossy on top + matt to finish is the proper way to do it.

I have had best results with Vallejo Game Color glossy and matt when using brushes, so I will continue using them.

[Atheling]

Alright, thanks again gents. I may try just the matt varnish on some of them, just to compare results. I mean the only difference between matt and glossy is the gloss, right? Why would it matter? Interesting...

Gloss in in general a lot tougher then Matt....... especially the polyurethane variety.

Darrell.

[Verderer]

Yes, I guess so.

I don't usually varnish my plastic minis, and they seem to fare better than metals which I do varnish for game use. Usually the problem is bits snapping off, not flaking or scratched paint.

[Chris Steadman]

Gloss in in general a lot tougher then Matt....... especially the polyurethane variety.

Darrell.

My understanding is, yes polyurethane varnishes are tougher, but that artists' gloss varnishes are no tougher than artists' matt varnishes. But there is a lot of hobbylore around the subject and I am no chemist 

[Harry Faversham]

Here's a tip from a man that know...

http://bigredbat.blogspot.co.uk/2009/09/bigredbats-littlest-invention.html

 

[Verderer]

I dunno looks risky... regular transfer 'softeners' like Solva-set and Micro-sol can be used with these transfers as well, if sticking/conforming to shape is a problem? I seem to recall the instructions say so?

[Harry Faversham]

Verderer, tried the method on over 100 Hoplons...
more risk of getting hit by a meteorite than spoiling a transfer.

 

[Captain Blood]

Got to say, although they are beautiful designs and almost completely ubiquitous across about 95% of the ancient and medieval wargames armies I see here and elsewhere, having dipped a toe into LBMS transfers with my early Saxons (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=66227.0) I am not a fan  

I have found that once you have cut out your shield decal (to be fair, the early Saxon 'buckler' ones are tiny), on some of them it's just impossible to split and separate the different layers.
In trying to peel off the clear plastic backing sheet, it often lifts off the decal itself and one or two sub-layers of the fibrous paper carrier sheet. In the process of then trying to separate the bit you want from the bits you don't, it's extremely difficult not to screw up the decal completely. So I have found that around one in four are wasted. Which I don't think is very good  

I've also found that you have to do so much work touching in the shield edges around the design, and then a little bit of overpainting of the main design to make the whole thing blend in, that it's frankly a pain in the bum.

And finally, however much varnish you slap on (and I must confess, I've only used a couple of generous layers of W&N matt Galeria artists acrylic varnish on mine), the decals still seem to shrink slightly and lift at the edges after a while. Which gives a slightly unattractive ghosting effect at the edge of the pattern...

I haven't yet tried any of the large (and gorgeous) Late Roman / Arthurian shield decals. Maybe they will be better, being that much bigger. But the small ones are a devil to handle - and I am by no means an inexperienced modeller and painter...  

So take care...

[Verderer]

My, don't like the sound of that at all... I guess I will first paint the shield white, then apply gloss varnish, and only then the transfer? Then glossy & matt varnish etc. In other words, just like with regular transfers. It should help with sticking and fading the edges and so on.

[Old Guy]

I have used LBMS on around 300+ figures and have found trouble with literally a handful of transfers which did not want to split. I do what it says on the tin with a white undercoat, I then use brush on matt varnish on shield and figure then a spray of anti-shine on the whole thing. No problems at all so far.

Someone said a tip was to separate the sheet then put it back before cutting, this supposedly makes it easier to come off, but I cannot testify to this.