Frostgrave - Rules

[JamWarrior]

In that case, Embed an Enchantment on to an already magic weapon?

RAW can't see a reason not to...

I haven't got the book with me, what options for purchased/found magic weapons are there?  How much of a can of worms has this opened? (Until the inevitable imminent errata when Joe comes back to this thread and his blood pressure recovers from our rules lawyer ways pulling his simple common sense rules apart, we only do it out of love and academic curiosity we promise!)

[Westfalia Chris]

I think he means a soldier who is carrying +1 damage magic weapon would be better off switching to his mundane weapon if it gets enchanted to +1 fight mid game.  Which is very niche but I believe fair enough by the rules.

That said the Enchant Weapon spell doesn't say it can't be cast on a magic weapon so you'd just do that.  The extra mundane weapon's presence or absence is still moot.

Note though that Enchant Weapon explicitly states that it cannot be used more than once on an individual weapon. Effectively, magic weapons have already been "enchanted", so I would be most surprised if it was supposed to work that way; fluff-wise, since the original enchantment was by definition more powerful than the in-game spell (creating a permanent magic weapon!), it would be logical not to allow magic weapons to receive a further enchantment.

[Darkson71]

Best options:

Hand Weapon: +3 Fight or +1 Fight, +2 dam

2H-Weapon: +2 Fight or +1 Fight, +2 dam (with an additional +2 dam for 2H)

Dagger: +2 Fight or +1 Fight, +2 dam (with -1 Dam for dagger)

Staff: +2 Fight or +1 Fight, +2 dam (with -1 dam)

Bow, crossbow: +2 Shoot or +1 Shoot, +2 dam (+crossbow dam)

[Darkson71]

it would be logical not to allow magic weapons to receive a further enchantment.

Which is what I assumed, hence there is a reason to keep the mundane.

[Westfalia Chris]

You may use Transpose to move a figure into combat because it is explicitly allowed in the spell entry. By extension, you may move the friendly target figure out of combat - otherwise, the spell wouldn't work.

You may NOT use Leap to move a figure into combat because it is explicitly forbidden in the spell entry. By extension, if you were allowed to use Leap to move a friendly figure out of combat, it would most likely be stated.

Thats what I said...

I'm sorry, in that case I misunderstood you and merely specified the Leap vs Transpose question. Maybe this is clearer and more applicable:

There IS a general rule (Shooting into Combat) that GENERALLY allows shooting attacks of any kind to be directed against figures in combat, including magical shooting attacks. Thus, you can use ANY magic shooting attack against a combat, except when explicitly forbidden in the spell description.

There is NO general rule that GENERALLY allows using other types of spells against figures in combat. In contrast, in some individual spells, there is a specific mention that allows the spell in question to be used against a figure in combat.

Thus, you can use SOME spells targeting figures in a combat, but not all spells.

[Westfalia Chris]

Best options:

Hand Weapon: +3 Fight or +1 Fight, +2 dam

2H-Weapon: +2 Fight or +1 Fight, +2 dam (with an additional +2 dam for 2H)

Dagger: +2 Fight or +1 Fight, +2 dam (with -1 Dam for dagger)

Staff: +2 Fight or +1 Fight, +2 dam (with -1 dam)

Bow, crossbow: +2 Shoot or +1 Shoot, +2 dam (+crossbow dam)

This is assuming that you can use Enchant Weapon on a Magic Weapon, right?

[Calmdown]

Like any rules thread, the answers break down when you answer half of them mechcnically and half of them via fluff justification

[Calmdown]

Thats what I said...


I'm sorry, in that case I misunderstood you and merely specified the Leap vs Transpose question. Maybe this is clearer and more applicable:

There IS a general rule (Shooting into Combat) that GENERALLY allows shooting attacks of any kind to be directed against figures in combat, including magical shooting attacks. Thus, you can use ANY magic shooting attack against a combat, except when explicitly forbidden in the spell description.

There is NO general rule that GENERALLY allows using other types of spells against figures in combat. In contrast, in some individual spells, there is a specific mention that allows the spell in question to be used against a figure in combat.

Thus, you can use SOME spells targeting figures in a combat, but not all spells.

Whilst this is logical, Blinding Light also reads "...otherwise this spell lasts until the end of the game" and no other spells do, so by the same inference you could assume that every other "ongoing" spell does not. Therefore I dont agree that this is necessarily correct.

Casting Strength or Shield onto a model that is in combat seems perfectly fine to me. It isnt prohibited anywhere.

[Westfalia Chris]

Like any rules thread, the answers break down when you answer half of them mechcnically and half of them via fluff justification

Dude, you started it by postulating a narrative necessity some pages ago!

Whilst this is logical, Blinding Light also reads "...otherwise this spell lasts until the end of the game" and no other spells do, so by the same inference you could assume that every other "ongoing" spell does not. Therefore I dont agree that this is necessarily correct.

Note that Blinding Light states that "the effects" last until the end of the game, not "this spell". Equivalent notices can be found in the descriptive texts for the following:

• Awareness
• Bind Demon
• Call Storm
• Combat Awareness
• Control Animal
• Control Construct
• Control Undead
• Curse
• Draining Word
• Enchant Armour
• Enchant Weapon
• Fleet Feet
• Forget Spell
• Glow
• Monstrous Form
• Mud
• Possess
• Power Word
• Shield
• Strength
• Will Power
• Wizard Eye

Any of the above spells lasts until the end of the game or until cancelled by Dispel, Spell-Eater or the magic void in the Tower scenario.

Mind Control and Slow remain in play until the end of the game or until a success Willpower roll is made.

The following spells have specific lapse criteria stated:

• Elemental Shield
• Explosive Rune
• Fog
• Fool's Gold
• Illusionary Soldier
• Imp
• Invisibility
• Petrify
• Plague of Insects
• Plane Walk

Unless the respective criterium is met or the spell is cancelled, they remain in play.

Dispel, Spell Eater and Reveal Invisible can be used to cancel an ongoing spell effect.

Time Store does not explicitly state that a stored action remains "for the rest of the game", but implies so by "in a future turn".

Personally, I would have preferred to have a fourth spell descriptor (i.e. School/Base Casting No./Type/Duration), that clearly designates a spell as Singular (i.e. the offensive/shooty/damaging spells effective once unless resisted or cancelled by an item), Temporary (i.e. those that have a specified lapse criterium or remain in play unless cancelled) or Permanent (unless cancelled, remain in play until the end of the game).

EDIT: Bulleted and bold-faced for improved legibility.

[joe5mc]

Hey guys, I've got to admit, I'm loosing track of the actual questions!

So, as relates to weapons.  A magical weapon/armour 'does' take the item slot on a soldier. It doesn't matter where this magic weapon came from. (it's more about how much a wizard trusts a soldier to carry magical stuff than it is the actual carrying capacity!). The magic weapon replaces the mundane version. He does not carry both.

You cannot Enchant a magical weapon as it is considered already enchanted. (Thus you can't embed it either)

You cannot use Leap on a figure in combat. The spell calls for the figure to make a 'move' and a figures cannot move while In Combat.

Boosting spells such as shield or strength can be cast on figure while in combat.

[JamWarrior]

Two points mainly from all those pages:

1) Is the Reveal Secret spell written incorrectly to end up opposite to its intent?  It says to place a treasure within 6" of your deployment zone.  You seemed to say the treasure goes at least 6" from your deployment zone.

2) A wizard who knows a spell fails his casting roll and uses a scroll to empower his cast to success.  Exactly how is his casting roll (for will resistance purposes etc) calculated?  Bearing in mind his target cast roll being potentially affected positively by level ups and negatively by not being his home school of magic.

[Calmdown]

Joe, would it help to archived this topic and let someome curate the main post and edit it with questions and answers (also easier to pit them into a document at some point, or other reference, too)? Then all you'd have to look at is the original post and we'd all have a nice list of your answers. Im happy to put the work in to keep the topic curated.

On combat and spells:

Since Leap can be cast into combat even though you can't move a model because it's in combat, I assume that that means that it is indeed fine to cast into combat.

Does beg a followup question though - does that go for all movement spells? Can I transpose a guy out of combat, or Push a guy out of combat (after rolling to see who I hit; or does the spell just fail after hitting?)

Cheers

[Westfalia Chris]

Joe, would it help to archived this topic and let someome curate the main post and edit it with questions and answers (also easier to pit them into a document at some point, or other reference, too)? Then all you'd have to look at is the original post and we'd all have a nice list of your answers. Im happy to put the work in to keep the topic curated.

On combat and spells:

Since Leap can be cast into combat even though you can't move a model because it's in combat, I assume that that means that it is indeed fine to cast into combat.

Maybe you missed Joe's reply above? He specifically stated that it cannot be cast on a figure already in combat, and the spell description states you cannot use it to move a figure into combat.

Does beg a followup question though - does that go for all movement spells? Can I transpose a guy out of combat, or Push a guy out of combat (after rolling to see who I hit; or does the spell just fail after hitting?)

As stated in its description, Transpose can be cast on friendly and enemy figures in combat (although any enemy figure gets a resistance attempt). By that reasoning, though, you could remove a friendly figure from a combat by transposing it with an enemy figure, provided the latter fails its Willpower roll.

Push isn't clear, though - it depends on whether you can target combats with non-shooting spells unless explicitly forbidden. That would be an instance, though, where I would be in favour of allowing it, although I am unsure if it should entail a resistance Willpower roll.

[Calmdown]

Maybe you missed Joe's reply above? He specifically stated that it cannot be cast on a figure already in combat, and the spell description states you cannot use it to move a figure into combat.

He said "the spell calls for a figure to move, and you cannot move a figure in combat". Presumably if spells cant be cast onto models in combat in the first place, then that is what he would have said rather than talking about the movement.

Sorry to be semantic Joe if that's not what you meant! Can you clarify this once and for all? Also the scrolls question if you could clarify would be great also.

[joe5mc]

You cannot cast Leap on someone in combat.

You can cast Push on a figure in combat.

I fear that I should probably be the keeper of any FAQ/Errata as people will always look to me for these answers. I can only ask that people be patient with me!