WSS Walloon Tercios Flags

[Arthur]

Would any of you learned ladies and gentlemen happen to possess reliable info on the flags carried by some of the Walloon regiments in Spanish service during the War of the Spanish Succession ?

The units I'm chiefly interested in are the Westerloo and Deynse tercios, both of which fought at Eckeren in 1703.

I have checked Gian Carlo Boeri's The Spanish Armies in the War of the League of Augsburg (which also provides partial coverage for the early years of the WSS), C.A Sapherson's Armies of Spain 1701-1715 and James Hinds' The Spanish Army of Philip V, but while I have all the relevant uniform info I need, I can't seem to find anything about the colours carried by the Westerloo and Deynse regiments - which may quite conceivably suggest these flags are currently unknown because of a dearth of primary sources.

Still, does anybody out there know something I don't ? 

[Arthur]

Well, it looks like my interests are firmly grounded in the arcane and the esoteric 

[WillieB]

The Westerlo regimental flag was in all probability this one.

http://www.google.be/imgres?imgurl=http://www.westerlo.be/sites/all/modules/imagemanager/files/over-westerlo/wapen-vlag/overwesterlo_vlag.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.westerlo.be/over-westerlo/huisstijl-en-wapenschild/vlag-gemeente-westerlo&h=217&w=326&tbnid=nkdmN1ez_7tReM:&docid=E8diR8qHz9p13M&ei=A1qvVd6gEsP0Uqu0i_AL&tbm=isch&ved=0CB4QMygAMABqFQoTCJ6u87mu7sYCFUO6FAodK9oCvg

The design is over 500 years old and is based on the De Merode blazon.

For Deinze ( Deynse)
Again the design pre- dates 1700 and might have been used in Spanish service.

https://www.google.be/search?q=westerlo+%2B+vlag&biw=1600&bih=1073&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CC8QsARqFQoTCL2zr56u7sYCFUnVFAodswEN5A#tbm=isch&q=deinze+%2B+vlag+%2B+regiment&imgrc=QDEB2s8NDn2BmM%3A

Alas,the only trophy still kept in a museum comes from a Bavarian regiment.

[cdr]

Maybe like Boeri suggests for Flemish regiments,  just three white flags with a red Burgundian cross.

Carl 

[Arthur]

Willie : Boeri gives the Merode-Westerloo coat of arms in his work on the Spanish army. The tinctures were certainly displayed on the drummers' livery (for which I have seen at least two different interpretations, one with blue cuffs and one with red ones : I suspect the lace would be red as well but have no evidence for this). The Westerloo regiment being in Spanish service, it seems likely the flags would have featured the red Burgundy cross though.

Carl : yes, that's the direction I was leaning toward. I was thinking of copying the white and red colours taken at La Marsaglia in 1693 and depicted in plates F3 and F4 of Boeri's work. Not really Westerloo but close enough I guess, and the white and red scheme of the flags nicely complements the red and blue uniforms.

[cdr]

Arthur

Have you seen the portrait of field marshal de Merode Westerloo by J. Van Schuppen?

It might have some information !

Carl

[Arthur]

You mean this one ?



The flag that can be glimpsed between the horse's rear legs is pretty difficult to make out. Another problem is that my Google-fu only managed to turn up the black and white reproduction above, which isn't going to help with colour. 

The Mérode-Westerloo coat of arms is easily found and matches the information provided by Willie, though as I wrote above it is more useful to reconstruct the musicians's livery than it is to determine what the regimental flags looked like.   

[Atheling]

Well, it looks like my interests are firmly grounded in the arcane and the esoteric 

Arthur, I'm personally going to be of no help on this one but have you tried popping the question on the League of Augsburg forum?

http://www.leagueofaugsburg.com/fightingtalk/index.php

Darrell.

[cdr]

Arthur

This link to a Belgian newspaper in German (Belgium is complicated  ) has a version of the picture in colour.

Carl

[Arthur]

Carl : I think you forgot the link 

Darrell : I used to be a regular on the Fighting Talk forum but it pains me to say that the 1660-1720 board is pretty dead now. Most of the really knowledgeable people seem to have left and I doubt I'd get more info there than I do here.

[Atheling]

Darrell : I used to be a regular on the Fighting Talk forum but it pains me to say that the 1660-1720 board is pretty dead now. Most of the really knowledgeable people seem to have left and I doubt I'd get more info there than I do here.

Actually, I'd noticed that it was rather slow over there too but I thought that it might just be because I wasn't posting pics of the sort of stuff most folk on the forum were interested in! 

Darrell

[cdr]

d'oh !

http://www.grenzecho.net/ArtikelLoad.aspx?a=3E48627D-90D6-420C-9D59-CD6F6A2BE1DA&mode=all

this might be better !

Carl

[Arthur]

The picture of the painting on the wall is very small but having zoomed it in as much as I could I believe it is a different version of the image above : same subject and same pose with the halberd-armed retinue behind Mérode-Westerloo, but minus the infantry and the cavalry in the background. I'd actually come across this pic on the Mérode-Westerloo genealogy website but had dismissed it because it didn't show the troops :



Oh well, looks like it's going to be red Burgundy crosses on a white background for the Mérode-Westerloo flags after all.

[Arthur]

Actually, I'd noticed that it was rather slow over there too but I thought that it might just be because I wasn't posting pics of the sort of stuff most folk on the forum were interested in! 

Darrell

The general discussion board still generates a bit of traffic but the 1660-1720 section is now a shadow of what it used to be two or three years ago.