Blackpowder in Frostgrave

[The_Baron]

Hey guys,

So anyone got any ideas on how to include blackpowder rifles and pistols in Frostgrave? I will be setting my Frostgrave games in the Mordheim/Warhammer World setting, and this seems to me to be the biggest obstacle.

Mordheim's rules of can only fire every second turn, but that they hit harder than crossbows seems like a good starting point. I can then work back to make some archetypes with these weapons and give them a points cost.

Any thoughts?

Cheers,
The Baron

[Harry]

I guess I would go with 'counts as' a crossbow ... but TBH I like your idea is better.
Crossbows are plus two damage ... so I guess you are looking at plus three to be a bit harder hitting or plus four to be pretty lethal.

My sence of it is Frostgrave is set pre black powder so I was avoiding using them.

[Daeothar]

Considering that the overall look and feel of Frostgrave is pre-firearms, I agree with Harry, in that I'll be avoiding them.

However, black powder weapons of the late medieval and early renaissance were not as pow(d)erful as the crossbows of the time and loading was just as cumbersome and time consuming.

So if you really want them in, I'd suggest simply taking the Crossbowman profile. Or, if you really want a difference, use the Marksman instead; his slightly improved stats (and cost) could reflect the difference between crossbow and arquebus...

[Smith]

Or, if you really want a difference, use the Marksman instead; his slightly improved stats (and cost) could reflect the difference between crossbow and arquebus...

That was going to be my suggestion too.

[Elbows]

While I'm not yet aware of the Frostgrave rules of play, things I'd suggest for very early firearms.

1) Expensive to purchase.
2) Unreliable (particularly in a snow environment, wet powder, etc.)
3) Cumbersome to reload.
4) Loud and smoky (a side effect on the user or others nearby?)
5) Mediocre range.
6) Not supremely accurate.

With proper training I'd imagine a crossbowman to be more deadly.  Both wouldn't be reloading on the move either.

[joe5mc]

There is certainly the issue of gunpowder attracting wandering monsters...although if you are throwing fireballs already, maybe not such a big deal.

I'd probably just call them crossbows if you want to keep it simple.

[Ddogwood]

I'll add my voice to the chorus of "count as crossbows". Making them more powerful, IMO, will alter the game balance and make things more complicated than they need to be.

After all, if an elf, a dwarf, and an orc are all the same profile, then why should we nitpick about firearms vs crossbows?

[Jiron]

I have been thinking about that myself and found out that Crossbow is exactly what I want for firearms. Long time loading and very powerful. I am also considering my second wizard to be built as Imperial Armada Captain along with his arquebusiers from Freebooter's Fate.

http://www.freebooterminiatures.de/en/catalog/87

Great game by the way.

[Comsquare]

Made up some rules for flintloque pistols, as I'm using Frostgrave for my Witchhunter-games.
They follow the rules like crossbows, but have their range reduced to 6 inch and grant instead a +1 to close combat, like daggers do.

[MacavityandMycroft]

I would definitely go the "treat as crossbow" route as well.

I'm planning on using these rules for a dimension spanning tournament featuring Star Wars, Superheroes and others.

Rule #1 is: change as little as possible

[The_Baron]

Looks like 'treat as a crossbow' seems to be the prevailing opinion! Will give that a shot 
The production quality of the book is great, very impressed

Made up some rules for flintloque pistols, as I'm using Frostgrave for my Witchhunter-games.
They follow the rules like crossbows, but have their range reduced to 6 inch and grant instead a +1 to close combat, like daggers do.

This also seems like a clever idea

[Philhelm]

Made up some rules for flintloque pistols, as I'm using Frostgrave for my Witchhunter-games.
They follow the rules like crossbows, but have their range reduced to 6 inch and grant instead a +1 to close combat, like daggers do.

I agree with the other posters who stated that blackpowder weapons should simply use the rules for crossbows.

For a pistol, I thought of the exact same thing, but with a 12" range.  The only problem is that there would be no reason to ever take an off-hand dagger as opposed to a pistol.  Perhaps adding +1 damage would be a better option, in order to represent the superior power of the firearm, and to not totally stomp on the existence of the off-hand dagger.  The off-hand dagger could at least provide superior defensive value through the Fight bonus.

[Darkson71]

I'm thinking that when (if) I take a Marksman he will have a handgun.  No change to the rules, just looking different to the crossbow-wielding lowlifes.

[Comsquare]

I agree with the other posters who stated that blackpowder weapons should simply use the rules for crossbows.

For a pistol, I thought of the exact same thing, but with a 12" range.  The only problem is that there would be no reason to ever take an off-hand dagger as opposed to a pistol.  Perhaps adding +1 damage would be a better option, in order to represent the superior power of the firearm, and to not totally stomp on the existence of the off-hand dagger.  The off-hand dagger could at least provide superior defensive value through the Fight bonus.

Not a bad idea, but I will stick to the close combat bonus, because, if the combat lasts longer than one round you would use the pistol more like a club, as reloading might be a little difficult

[Philhelm]

Not a bad idea, but I will stick to the close combat bonus, because, if the combat lasts longer than one round you would use the pistol more like a club, as reloading might be a little difficult

Would you only apply the +1 fight bonus if the pistol is loaded then?