Soldier and Wizard Experience Variant

[Ivan DBA]

Hey guys,

Here is a variant I just put together to allow Soldiers to gain XP, and address the issue of Wizards who favor kill spells, particularly Elemental Bolt and Bone Darts being able to get XP so much faster than those that favor other spells.

I also expanded the experience table slightly to allow experience for eliminating creatures (which varies based on the Health of the Creature, since 40 XP for eliminating a 1H Skeleton seemed excessive).

I welcome any thoughts/comments, and would particularly like to hear if anyone tries this variant in a game.

Variant Experience Rules

Both Wizards and human Soldiers gain experience, and level-up for every 100 experience points.  Apprentices level-up with their Wizard, as explained in the rulebook.  Non-human warband members (such as Constructs, Demons, Warhounds, Zombies, etc.) do not gain experience or levels. 

Wizards gain experience for Achievements they personally carry out, and for spells cast by their apprentice or treasure carried off-board by their apprentice.  Human Soldiers gain experience for Achievements they personally carry out.

Note that Achievements based on eliminating creatures or enemies can only be accomplished through melee, or missile weapons, not by spells (including spells cast with scrolls).  To be clear, eliminating an enemy with a magic weapon, either in melee or shooting, does qualify for an Achievement.

For example, if a Wizard uses Elemental Bolt to eliminate an enemy apprentice, he earns 10 Experience for the Achievement of casting a spell, but does not receive experience for eliminating the apprentice, because he has not accomplished that Achievement.  Conversely, if the Wizard eliminates an enemy Thug in melee, using either a mundane weapon, or a magic weapon, he would gain + 40 Experience.

Experience Table
Experience   Achievement
+ 10   For each spell successfully cast (by either the wizard or his apprentice)
+ 20   For each creature of 1 - 6 Health (not Wraiths) eliminated by melee/missile weapons
+ 40   For each Wraith, creature of 7+ Health (not Frost Giants), or enemy soldier eliminated by melee/missile weapons
+ 80   For each Frost Giant or enemy apprentice eliminated by melee/missile weapons
+ 150   For each enemy wizard the wizard eliminated by melee/missile weapons
+ 50   For carrying a treasure off the table (Wizards get experience both for treasure they personally carry off, and for that carried off by the Apprentice).

Soldier Levels

When Soldiers level-up, they may only increase stats, and may not learns spells (or, obviously, improve casting numbers).  As with Wizards, they may only increase any particular stat by +1 at a time.  Also like Wizards, only the Fight, Shoot, Will, and Health stats may be improved.

Soldiers' maximum stats are as follows: Fight (+6), Shoot (+5), Will (+6), Health (20).

[Fencing Frog]

interesting thoughts I like the idea of soldiers gaining experience

[Calmdown]

I think that it's a little bit too specific in the monsters you've used and the manner of kills.

Also whilst it does mitigate the xp gain from "killing things", it doesn't address the core problem - that this is an objective focused game, and killing things shouldn't be your primary focus. That's why our variant removed kill XP altogether, so that tactics involving not killing; evading, disabling, moving around, clever tricks etc were just as valid.

Still better than the default but not the right fix for the problem imho.

[Dakota Mike]

I like this idea to an extent.  It could make sense that if my Soldier lives through a bunch of fights they could advance in skills, but I think paying for a better Soldier was Joe's way of handling this.  Still it does merit some consideration.

[darthgus]

Feels a lot more like Mordhiem when soldiers level... I like that 

[Darkson71]

Not sure if this is the right way to go for me - I like the fact that only the wizard (and by extension, the apprentice) improve.  Getting exp on the soldiers is straying to far into the Mordheim territory for me (and I play Mordheim for that).  Also improving soldiers stats means that without some sort of balancing system put in place that issues that Calmdown raised on his blog are going to be amplified.

[Argonor]

I have been toying with the idea of soldiers being able to advance too, but that they have to survive 5 games to become level 0 Heroes.

1 xp for each point of Health a Hero removes from an enemy model, but a substantial xp reward for carrying treasure off the board.

Not tried it out, yet, though. Maybe won't, depends on the ppl I am going to play against.

[Ivan DBA]

Darkson:  I don't think it would amplify the issues Calmdown has talked about, I think it would mitigate them.  If Soldiers improve for eliminating enemies and capturing treasure, that will most benefit warbands whose Wizards specialize in spells that boost soldiers, help maneuver soldiers, use tricks to put their soldiers in a good position, etc.  In other words, it increases the benefit gained by focusing on non-attack spells.

Calmdown:  I hear what you are saying, but I don't see this game as purely "objective driven."  That is one way to play, one way to win, but the focus should not be solely on treasure.  RPGs very traditionally award XP for defeating monsters, and I think Frostgrave should stick to that tradition.  Eliminating all XP for killing bad guys and monsters (and imposing turn limits) makes the game too one-dimensional, IHMHO.  Just a race to grab treasure, and little more.  I understand where you are coming from, but I want a less drastic solution.

 

[Zinkala]

We've only played a couple of games but thought soldier experience would be interesting. I wouldn't mind seeing the soldiers slowly evolve form a lowly thug or thief up through the ranks. I don't see it as hugely unbalanced because of a couple of things; first soldiers tend to die often. I don't think there will be too many that can survive to be a super hero. Second; We can already take our gold and buy much improved soldiers after a battle or 2. Is a thief who performs well and gets a couple of points added to his stats a better choice than just buying a tracker? In game probably not but we like it when we can root for those lucky models that survive and improve. I agree with Ivan DBA that xp for kills should be kept but maybe the values could be toned down.

I haven't put any real thought into xp values or gold costs but here's a couple ideas from us. Get experience for being the first to pick up a treasure. Gives you extra incentive to risk driving for more difficult treasures. Got this idea from playing in paintball tournaments where the first flag grab gives you a lower level of points and the final hang gives you a large level of points. With this we also thought the soldier should get the experience for carrying treasure of map. This would make the wizards get xp at a much slower rate which I don't know is good or bad. Next idea is allowing a soldier to spend their experience on new weapon/armour training. Maybe with an added gold cost to simulate buying the weapon/armour. Instead of spending 50 gc on a better soldier spend 10 gc and a level of experience to give your thief a sword.

Just a few thoughts.