Pyrrhic Victory - was Hoplites of Magna Graecia - now with more Phalangites

[Hu Rhu]

Those are some wonderful painted figures.  I have some Victrix Romans to paint and haven't settled on a style yet.  Given that I have over 200 plus cavalry, I might try your technique out to see the effect. 

Do you think it will work equally well on plastic figures or are there some different steps I should be considering?

[philhendry]

Thank you! I have used the exact same technique on Warlord's plastics, and it worked fine. Victrix's figures have slightly finer detail, but I think it should still work well.

[philhendry]

I think I may need to re-title this thread 'Pyrrhic Victory' or something - rather than starting a seperate thread for each unit I paint, for this project (Pyrrhus in Italy), I think I should stick them all in the same one. So, without further ado, here are two more contributions (both Aventine Minis), painted in my usual dippy manner. First a unit of Tarentine Levy phalangites - assuming that Pyrrhus had begun to re-train and re-equip the Tarentine hoplites as phalangites:



And then a stand of senior Pyrrhic command:

[Helen]

Lovely!

[Mithridates1]

Splendid work on some fine figures.

Garry

[OSHIROmodels]

Excellent work there Phil 

cheers

James

[Atheling]

Ooh, they are lovely Phil mate  

And then a stand of senior Pyrrhic command

And these are beyond lovely!!  

Keep up the (soul destroying ) work mate

Darrell.

[julesav]

Incredible work - I really wish I hadn't seen these! 

[Axebreaker]

Again they look just wonderful! I'm curious how you keep your whites so clean using AP. I plan on doing the Punic Wars using Victrix's plastics and I'll use AP for those. I'll try and resist adding highlights and see if I'm happy with the results.

Christopher

[philhendry]

Thanks folks!

If the pot of dip is fairly new, and 'thin enough' it doesn't stain the highlights very much. I add a few drops of thinner every now and then, but inevitably it does get thicker with time… If I think it's going to stain, then I 'drybrush' white highlights with a brush dampened with thinners, as the 'dip' is going tacky - that lifts it off the highlights.

[Axebreaker]

Interesting. Thank you.

I assume you take dip out the can and add it to cup or something and then add a bit of thinner to that to get the thinner to ap?

Looking at your figures it appears you employ quite a bit of thinner dry brushing as they are very clean for AP figures?

Would it be fair to say the process is something like:

Block paint colours
Brush on thinned AP
re-apply to areas not enough defined (eyes,definitions etc.)
lightly Dry brush with thinner where needed
Add decals
Apply matt coat

Christopher

[philhendry]

Interesting. Thank you.

I assume you take dip out the can and add it to cup or something and then add a bit of thinner to that to get the thinner to ap?

Looking at your figures it appears you employ quite a bit of thinner dry brushing as they are very clean for AP figures?

No. I don't. It is very simple.

Would it be fair to say the process is something like:

Prime white.

Block paint colours

Yes.

Brush on thinned AP

I only thin it if it's gone 'gloopy' - and I simply add thinner to the can.

re-apply to areas not enough defined (eyes,definitions etc.)

Hardly ever - only if I miss somewhere. I'm quite good at knowing how much to apply to get the effect (I've done thousands of figures with it now)… Practice makes perfect and all that.

lightly Dry brush with thinner where needed

Only on areas which are white/very light, and even then, only if I think they look as though they're staining significantly.

Add decals
Apply matt coat

Yes. decals go onto areas which are pure white - no dip - and which have been gloss varnished.

The whole point is to keep the proces simple, otherwise it gets slow and you might as well go back to three colour layering. It's about practice and judgement - knowing what 'shortcuts' you can get away with and not adversely affect the outcome, so as to keep it quick… Then you can paint big armies in a reasonable time frame.

[Axebreaker]

Prime white.

Ooops, yep forgot that part.

Hardly ever - only if I miss somewhere. I'm quite good at knowing how much to apply to get the effect (I've done thousands of figures with it now)… Practice makes perfect and all that.

Yes, I suppose that's the most important factor of all.

Yes. decals go onto areas which are pure white - no dip - and which have been gloss varnished.

Do you mean you gloss varnish the white surface or the decal before later adding the matt?

The whole point is to keep the proces simple, otherwise it gets slow and you might as well go back to three colour layering. It's about practice and judgement - knowing what 'shortcuts' you can get away with and not adversely affect the outcome, so as to keep it quick… Then you can paint big armies in a reasonable time frame.

Exactly that's where I'm trying to get, but every time I use the dip I end up adding highlights which in turn frustrates me as it adds too much time defeating the whole process. I generally prefer metal, but I think I'll invest in some Victrix plastics so I can acquire the practice and judgement at a reasonable cost.

Christopher

[philhendry]

Do you mean you gloss varnish the white surface or the decal before later adding the matt?

I gloss the white surface (usually two coats of Future/Klear floor polish), so as to give the decal the best possible surface to adhere to. I usually put a couple of coats over the top once the decal is dry too - Klear dries very quickly, and it adds another layer of protection for the (delicate) decal. Matt varnish comes right at the end, just before I flock the bases.

Exactly that's where I'm trying to get, but every time I use the dip I end up adding highlights which in turn frustrates me as it adds too much time defeating the whole process. I generally prefer metal, but I think I'll invest in some Victrix plastics so I can acquire the practice and judgement at a reasonable cost.

The only colours I ever highlight are ones which are darker than the 'dip' - and I add those highlights before I do the 'dip'. That's the only way to get any shading/highlights on really dark colours. Because it's only one part of a figure, it doesn't take long to do.



I never put 'dip' over shield or banner transfers - I like them to stand out and look bright.

A lot of the 'psychology' of using the 'dip' is about believing it'll work, in the face of apparent 'evidence' that it won't. The figures always look awful until that final matt coat! You just have to believe that they will look okay in the end (and not 'give in' and add highlights). The first figure I painted with the 'dip' very nearly went in the bin once I saw how hideous it looked. But I persevered, and matt varnished it - the transformation shocked me - and it still surprises me a little.

And you have to 'forget' the idea that this is about painting figures. It's about painting units for use on the tabletop - and the techniques are done with that in mind. I don't post close-ups of my figures because they don't look that good close up… But 'en masse' on the tabletop, in nice-sized units, they look awesome - and you can easily turn out a unit most weeks - so good-sized, good-looking, armies don't take long.

[philhendry]

One other thing… If I've got to paint a horse which is white, or a lot of figures in predominantly white clothing, I just use 'Soft Tone'. It looks good on white and you don't have to mess around with thinner, lifting 'dip' off highlights and all that jazz. I have, sometimes, even used two different shades of 'dip' on the same figure… It slows things down a bit, but not as much as doing three-layer shading!