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Author Topic: Contact - Canadian Army Cold War Rules Mods?  (Read 1747 times)

Offline Mako

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 779
Contact - Canadian Army Cold War Rules Mods?
« on: August 23, 2015, 08:42:02 PM »
I bought these a while back, and they look interesting.  A fairly simple set of rules for pitting Soviet/Warpac armor vs. Canadian armor during the Cold War.  The system uses percentile dice for determing the outcomes, though in many cases you could probably use D10s or D20s instead, if you prefer.

http://www.lulu.com/shop/captain-donnelly-and-john-curry/contact-the-canadian-army-tactical-training-wargame-1980/paperback/product-15931336.html

There are a limited number of vehicle stats for the major types used, primarily for the 1980s period (perhaps late 1970s as well), e.g. Leopard C1, M113, Grizzley, Lynx, Gepard, T-62, T-72, T-80, BMP, BRDM-2, and BTR-60PB.  Also, stats for the Chieftian V, and M60A3,  Rules also, as one would expect for a couple of types of ATGMs, RPGs, infantry, and artillery (offboard only - which probably makes sense given the size of most peoples' gaming tables).

No stats for the German Marder IFV, Luchs, Jaguar, or the American M-1, Bradley, etc.

I don't recall seeing any rules for helos or aircraft, but I've only skimmed them, so perhaps I missed that (after all, the Gepard is included).

There are a number of pages dedicated to tactics, and Soviet formations, which is useful to the novice Cold War gamer, and/or historian.

Any way, I'm curious to see if others are using these for Cold War gaming, and if any of you have come up with stats for other earlier, or later, Cold War era armor, e.g.:  M48, M47, M46, M41, Leopard 1 and 1A1, Leopard II, Marder, Luchs, HS-30, Spz Kurz, Jagdpanzer Kanone and Rakete, Jaguar 1 and 2, M-1, Bradley, T-54/T-55, PT-76, BTR-50, BTR-152, etc.?

Also curious to see if you've come up with house rules for helos and air attacks, etc., also?

I'd be interested in sharing thoughts on the subject.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 09:11:35 PM by Mako »

Offline Hobbit

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 490
Re: Contact - Canadian Army Cold War Rules Mods?
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2015, 05:53:23 PM »
I've never used these but I believe they're derived from WRG's 1950-85 rules. That set does include all of the things you mention and is available as a free PDF here: http://www.wrg.me.uk/WRG.net/History/OLDWRG/Modern.pdf

The rules could really do with a decent command and control system adding on but the core mechanics are fairly sound if highly afv-centric.

Offline carlos marighela

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 10762
  • Flamenguista até morrer.
Re: Contact - Canadian Army Cold War Rules Mods?
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2015, 09:13:24 PM »
I've not used them either but always understood they were a simplified derivative of the old WRG rules. If they use the same armour factors then you'll find much of what you want in the original WRG set, which are available free on-line. The rules themselves, I'd recommend only for nostalgia purposes.
Em dezembro de '81
Botou os ingleses na roda
3 a 0 no Liverpool
Ficou marcado na história
E no Rio não tem outro igual
Só o Flamengo é campeão mundial
E agora seu povo
Pede o mundo de novo

Offline Hobbit

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 490
Re: Contact - Canadian Army Cold War Rules Mods?
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2015, 09:04:13 AM »
There were also several sets of army lists and lists of vehicle stats produced in the 80s by TableTop Games in the UK, written by Bruce Rea-Taylor. Most of this material contained dual stats for the WRG rules and for BR-T's own rule set (Challenger). You will, of course, need to take into consideration that these were the product of what info was available in that period.

I think the WRG rule set is very much a case of "horses for courses" and personal taste. I probably wouldn't play them anymore as they give very little attention to command and control elements and I'd rather play games at the higher level. BUT I do know people who still use it as the base for their "modern" gaming at 1:1 model to vehicle scale. It was good enough in it's day to form the base for US and Canadian Army games.


Offline Arrigo

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1074
  • errare humanum est, perseverare diabolicum est
    • Forward HQ my new blog where you can laugh at my crappy photos!
Re: Contact - Canadian Army Cold War Rules Mods?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2015, 01:59:49 PM »
Often at the time it was supposed that the C3I side would have been injected by having multiple players, certainly it was the way the Military expected it to run. Once Major General Andrew Sharpe OBE told me that when he was a young officer they played WRG "modern" (at the time) rules in training. The Instructors injected C3I in a very simple way. Each time a formation CO wanted to change his plan (and they had already committed their plans to map before starting) he was taken on another room and discussed it with the Instructor. When he came back with the new plan he realized some turns had passed...  lol

Having done wargaming with military people in the past, sometime the "I have the rank, this is the victory plan" syndrome is quite common and takes care of C3I and SNAFU...

Syndicate commander: "we will send 6 infantry battalions up on the ridge and smash the Germans"
Supply officer: "I do not think it is a good idea."
RHA Gunner: "they have artillery, it is not a good idea"
Syndicate commander: "I am the boss... this is the plan"

Referee (Me): "Are you sure?"
Major General (towering above and behind me): "are you really sure  you want to commit 6 infantry battalions up to that ridge?"

<nods>

Major General: "now Arrigo will calculate the results"  :o

I leave the rest ot your imagination.

 
"Put Grant straight in"

for pretty tanks and troops: http://forwardhq.blogspot.com

 

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