So, Early Cold War Soviet/WARPAC Rides?

[Mako]

I want to do a bit of early Cold War gaming, and am considering APC/IFV options for the following forces: Soviets, East Germans, Polish, and perhaps Czechs.

The options appear to be BTR50P (OT62 for the Polish), BTR50PK, BTR-152, and BTR-152K - the "K" suffix variants have overhead armor for them.

Kind of on the fence as far as going with open-topped vehicles vs. those with overhead armor, since I'd like to game both 1950s (especially late 1950s), and 1960s era battles in Europe.

The open-topped vehicles were available earlier (1950 vs. 1959, respectively, for the BTR-152s), so am wondering which variants to choose, since I can't afford to field both right now in larger scales (may want to eventually with micro-armor), e.g. 1/144th and 1/100th.  What I'm unclear on is when/if the open-topped vehicles were eventually given overhead armor, or how late they were available/used into the 1960s and 1970s. 

I know the BTR-152s were used until at least the early 1970s, and in some cases, were still used as utility vehicles until the early 1990s.

Not sure if it makes a difference, but I am most interested in fielding Soviet and East German forces, primarily, for their tank and motor rifle units (scout and advanced guard units too), but am also very interested in their amphibious landing troops as well, which is why I'm also considering the Poles.  Apparently, the latter were slated to provide a significant portion of the marines to help take over the Danish Baltic Isles, if the war went hot.

So, any thoughts on which to go with, e.g. open-topped, and/or those with overhead cover?

Anyone know when/if the open-topped vehicles got overhead armor, or how late they were used by the above forces?

Finally, what about the mix between tracked vs. wheeled vehicles in the front-line units?

I suspect they'd go tracked wherever possible, though perhaps like the mid-Cold War, perhaps two-thirds of the motor rifle and other units would be using wheeled vehicles (BTR-60s and later variants), due to cost/availability issues.  Does that sound reasonable?

[Arlequín]

The BTR-152K was introduced in 1959, but I imagine it would be some time before all first-line units received theirs and then a further extended period before they filtered down to Warpac forces who did not produce their own versions. The extra weight reduced the passengers from 18 to 13, which meant that three vehicles were now required to lift a platoon, whereas formerly two carriers did.

There is also the BTR-60P which was produced as an open-top from 1960 until 1963, after which the enclosed PA replaced it, before itself being replaced by the PB in '66, with its 14.5mm MG turret. 

Depending on the particular army, you would find all types in use easily into the '70s and even somewhat later in some 'Third World' nations, as 'donated' and 'sale' items were usually the most obsolete equipment around.

[carlos marighela]

I think you'll find the NVA received BTR-152 s fairly early in the piece.

As for the Soviets I suppose it depends on what you define as early. The open top BTR-60P appeared at the start of the '60s. without looking it up I think it was around 1962 IIRC.

In his book Liberators, the Soviet defector Viktor Suvorov recounts the difficulty in packing in overweight reservists into the new closed top BTR-60Ps as  opposed to the old open top versions during the Soviet Invasion of Czechoslovakia in May 1968. The PB version was also seeing action on the Chinese frontier with the Border Guards around this time, so it seems they were becoming reasonably widespread at least among front line troops.

As Jim says, lots of things soldiered on well beyond the nominal introduction date of newer kit, so within reason you can probably use anything from the various BTR-152 marks through open and closed top versions of the BTR-60 through to the late 1970s. Do remember that the older open topped vehicles were fielded two per Motor Rifle platoon as opposed to the three per platoon of the closed versions.

[julesav]

As I understand it wheeled carriers are for Motor Rifle troops in MR Divisions, tracked carriers were for Motor Rifle troops in Tank Divisions.

Polish Naval Infantry used OT type tracked carriers as they are amphibious, BTR152s are not!

BTR60s appear to have gone to Russian units before Pact ones. Russian Naval Infantry seemed to use BTR60s, perhaps because they were upgraded from defensive missions (protecting fleet bases etc) to offensive amphibious missions as the BTR series was introduced?

Undoubtedly the real situation was nowhere as simple as this though!

[MartinR]

I think that tracked carries are going to be in  a small minority in the 50s/60s though. Even when BMPs were first introduced, their issue was....sparse.

I'd go with a mix of BTR-152s and BTR60s for some variety, (plus a few, very few, tracked APCs).

Cheers
Martin

[Hobbit]

Off the top of my head I also think that Soviet tank regiments often only had a single MR company attached rather than the full battalion that became the later norm.

[Arlequín]

I've always found 'The Armoured Acorn' to be very good for Orbats and equipment .

[cuprum]

I think it will be useful to you these tables:

http://www.armouredacorn.com/#!russian-orbats/c101q

http://www.armouredacorn.com/