Spilling the beans on Dragon Rampant

[Hobgoblin]

Sounds great! And yes, there is an armour upgrade for Bellicose foot.

Good news! And if I read the rulebook pages in your latest blog entry correctly, there's no speed penalty attached. My long-standing conundrum over how best to represent Tolkien's Uruk-hai appears to be solved (they're described essentially as heavy infantry who can move at great speeds for long distances). Although there is still the question of their bows. I'm vaguely inclined to give them a mixed-weapons upgrade with the proviso that they can attempt to shoot (but not move) if they resist the lure of the wild charge. That might make them too powerful/expensive, but it would also allow for a "death of Boromir" situation.

It occurred to me after my most recent game that the reduced-unit rules get around a particular glitch in many fantasy systems: the overpowered unit. I remember this as a particular problem in the early versions of Warhammer (when playing second and third edition as kids, we generally banned powerful wizards, monsters and demons and concentrated instead on ordinary troops and low-level heroes), and I gather that it only got worse in later versions. Now, I know many might think that a dragon, say, ought to be more powerful than six or twelve men. But I'm not sure that the best fantasy literature really bears that out. After all, dragons are generally killed by lone heroes - or heroes who get a little bit of assistance: Beowulf and Wiglaf, for example, or Hercules and his squire against the Hydra of Lerna. Then there's Smaug (I'm sure a damaging volley from a reduced-model archer unit and a subsequent catastrophic failure on the courage roll could give a convincing one-shot kill ...), Fafnir and the Lambton Worm. Or Bellerophon against the chimera.

In short, the monsters of myth and fiction are generally taken out by a reduced-numbers unit of Elite Foot or Elite Riders. So a fantasy wargame that reflects that, rather than spiralling off into massively powerful profiles, strikes me as a very good thing.

[Arthadan]

In short, the monsters of myth and fiction are generally taken out by a reduced-numbers unit of Elite Foot or Elite Riders. So a fantasy wargame that reflects that, rather than spiralling off into massively powerful profiles, strikes me as a very good thing.

Yes, but before heroic knight defeats the dragon single-handed many other knights have tried and failed before him. And the moster is a creature that terrorizes the land because it doesn't go down easily.

I'll wait and see how Dragon Rampant handles both, big monster and heroes.

[Hobgoblin]

Yes, but before heroic knight defeats the dragon single-handed many other knights have tried and failed before him. And the moster is a creature that terrorizes the land because it doesn't go down easily.

Sometimes, but certainly not always. In Beowulf, for instance, it seems that the eponymous hero and his warband are the first warriors to take the monster on. The beast has terrified farmers and thralls, and is obviously formidable, but Beowulf and Wiglaf put paid to it on their own, albeit at a significant cost. And in some Norse tales, dragons seem more like dangerous pests than apocalyptic threats. But my point is that a dragon's only natural predator is the man-at-arms. That doesn't mean that the man-at-arms will always prevail, but he does at least have a fighting chance!

Of course, men-at-arms are a relative rarity in most dragon stories, so there are plenty of ordinary people to be terrorised beforehand. But a dragon on a battlefield brimming with accomplished warriors is a more vulnerable beast than one who confines his activities to lurking in his cave, devouring livestock and burning fields.

[danmer]

I've tried to avoid any of the new rules making power-crazed gamers too happy 

I never much enjoyed the fantasy games I played that allowed one or two models to dominate a whole army. A dragon is still going to be a challenge to bring down - it's not only about Strength Points remember, they have a good attack and reasonable defence if you pay the points, plus the ability to fly, breathe fire, etc - but it's unlikely it will have enough puff to trample the enemy all by itself.

I got my advance copy over the weekend and am very pleased with the look of the final thing. Hopefully people will enjoy it...

[tomrommel1]

When will we be able to get our copies???

[Hobgoblin]

I've tried to avoid any of the new rules making power-crazed gamers too happy 

I never much enjoyed the fantasy games I played that allowed one or two models to dominate a whole army. A dragon is still going to be a challenge to bring down - it's not only about Strength Points remember, they have a good attack and reasonable defence if you pay the points, plus the ability to fly, breathe fire, etc - but it's unlikely it will have enough puff to trample the enemy all by itself.

That all sounds great. An obvious aesthetic benefit of dragons (and other visually striking creatures) not being too powerful is that you can get many more on the table. I have the old Tony Ackland war wyvern and the Tom Meier blue dragon seeping in Dettol as I write ...

[danmer]

When will we be able to get our copies???

The release date is 20 December but I think my previous rules with Osprey have published slightly ahead of the official date. Mid/late December though, I should think.

The advantage of writing the rules is that I see them sooner 

[Luddite]

Really looking forwards to these Dan.   

[tomrommel1]

Role on December then!!!

[Dr. Moebius]

I'm busy preparing for the rules:

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=83340.0

I'm sure the rules will be great.

Thanks

[Evil Doctor]

Hi all,

Some great old school minis in this thread!

I have a question - I have a load of orcs and dwarves in 10mm based up for KoW. Will I be able to use them for DR? Will it matter that I can't remove casualties figures? Will that require more book keeping? I'm not familiar with LR, but I like what I see of the fantasy version, and have really enjoyed playing Dux Bellorum.

Any help appreciated,

EvilD

[Hobgoblin]

Hi all,

Some great old school minis in this thread!

I have a question - I have a load of orcs and dwarves in 10mm based up for KoW. Will I be able to use them for DR? Will it matter that I can't remove casualties figures? Will that require more book keeping? I'm not familiar with LR, but I like what I see of the fantasy version, and have really enjoyed playing Dux Bellorum.

Any help appreciated,

EvilD

I don't think it would be much of a problem (going on recent experience of using HOTT multi-based figures and Strength Points for big creatures). The only book-keeping you'd have to do is keep a record of casualties (or Strength Points) for each unit - just a simple five-bar-gate tally under the unit name on a sheet of paper. That happens anyway for reduced-number units.

How many figures do you have on each base? If you used two (or four bases) per unit, you would have a simple visual means of representing a unit at half strength. But you'd have the paper tally in any case, so it wouldn't much matter.

If you do have quite a lot of bases, I'd be tempted to use four for a 12-strong unit and two for a six-strong one, so you'd have some visual sense of casualties. It wouldn't actually matter if there were five or ten figures or twenty figures on each base - it would just give you an impression of the unit's surviving numbers. But you could do it just fine with unchanging blocks and casualties on paper, I think.

[Evil Doctor]

Thanks Hobgoblin, all sounds very do-able. I'm looking forward to this!

EvilD

[3 fingers]

I'm busy preparing for the rules:

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=83340.0

I'm sure the rules will be great.

Thanks

I'm thinking of the new Russians from Fireforge as fantasy knights.