Help finding an old citadel colour paint equivalent

[Charlie_]

I need to find a replacement for the old citadel colour "Scorched Brown" paint.

It's a dark reddish brown I use a lot, most notably for base coats and mixing with flesh to get mid tones.

Using this chart I went with Vallejo Game Color Charred Brown.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Paint_Range_Compatibility_Chart
However, it's not the same colour. Most notably it doesn't have the reddish element to it, and when mixed with flesh it comes out more like grey.

Using the above chart, I think my next best bet would be to try the new citadel range. Apparently "Rhinox Flesh" is the same as the old scorched brown. But is it really?

The chart also lists Vallejo Game Colour and Vallejo Model Color. What's the difference? Is their Charred Brown the same as their Burnt Umber?

Also it seems there is no Coat d'Arms equivalent.

If anyone has any tips, that would be great. I need this colour, my pot is almost empty, and my painting technique relies on it!!!

[Major_Gilbear]

Try P3's "Battlefield Brown" - looks like a super-close match from what I can see (but if you can wait until tomorrow evening, I can get a colour swatch made up to show you).

[Charlie_]

Try P3's "Battlefield Brown" - looks like a super-close match from what I can see (but if you can wait until tomorrow evening, I can get a colour swatch made up to show you).

That would be super-helpful, thanks for the offer! What's most important is the colour is makes when mixed with flesh or bone, it needs to be a nice reddish colour. Actually, give me 10 minutes and I will take some photos of what I'm talking about....

[Charlie_]

Here we go. The top one is Citadel Scorched Brown, and the colour it makes when mixed with Vallejo Elf Fleshtone and Bonewhite. The bottom one is Vallejo Charred Brown, and the colour it makes when mixed with Elf Fleshtone and Bonewhite.
I need to find that Scorched Brown colour! Doesn't matter if it is slightly darker or lighter, but it is pretty much perfect as it is.
The chart I linked to suggests that the two colours are the same, which they are obviously not. Nevertheless the Vallejo one is a nice brown which is worth having in my paintbox... Incidentally, the P3 color it lists as being the equivalent is not the Battlefield Brown you mentioned, but Umbral Umber.

[Jerekin]

Man, I am lucky for now that I have two pots left. This GW color policy is just BS.


What about GW Mournfang Brown or Vallejo Flat Brown or Mahogany Brown, maybe even Choclate Brown?

Those look more reddish to me.

[Spooktalker]

I have Scorched Brown and Battlefield Brown and they are not alike. Battlefield Brown is fairly neutral with no red tint. Scorched Brown is quite rich and saturated withe the red tint.

There is this very cool chart on DakkaDakka. However, be warned, where a close match is lacking the chart tends to list whatever is closest, and I've found it to be misleading in a few cases.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Paint_Range_Compatibility_Chart

In this case the P3 suggestion is Umbral Umber, but this, while richer/more saturated than Battelfield Brown, is very dark, much darker than Scorched Brown. You'll see there are various other suggestions from other companies. My bet would be Vallejo Game Color Charred Brown, as those were made to directly compete with the Scorched Brown era GW paints, and the name is an obvious analogue.


Just as cool as the DakkaDakka chart is this one matching the then current GW with the still available Coat'd'Arms paints, which are the same as the old citadel. No scorched brown on this chart, but as I tracked it down to check it before going to the one above I thought I'd mention it..
The wayback machine to the rescue here, as the site has since gone dark (though Dr. Faustus remains active on YouTube):
https://web.archive.org/web/20140328015317/http://www.paintingclinic.com/productreviews/cdaconversionchart.htm

[Charlie_]

There is this very cool chart on DakkaDakka. However, be warned, where a close match is lacking the chart tends to list whatever is closest, and I've found it to be misleading in a few cases.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Paint_Range_Compatibility_Chart

In this case the P3 suggestion is Umbral Umber, but this, while richer/more saturated than Battelfield Brown, is very dark, much darker than Scorched Brown. You'll see there are various other suggestions from other companies. My bet would be Vallejo Game Color Charred Brown, as those were made to directly compete with the Scorched Brown era GW paints, and the name is an obvious analogue.


Just as cool as the DakkaDakka chart is this one matching the then current GW with the still available Coat'd'Arms paints, which are the same as the old citadel. No scorched brown on this chart, but as I tracked it down to check it before going to the one above I thought I'd mention it..
The wayback machine to the rescue here, as the site has since gone dark (though Dr. Faustus remains active on YouTube):
https://web.archive.org/web/20140328015317/http://www.paintingclinic.com/productreviews/cdaconversionchart.htm

See my above posts, I have used that chart, and went for Charred Brown - it's not the same.

The Coat d'Arms option would be ideal, but yeah seems there was no GW Scorched Brown back in the day, and so no Coat d'Arms equivalent!

I think my best bet would be to try out the new GW 'Rhinox Hide'. If it's slightly darker that's fine, as long as it has that reddish hue. Anyone have experience with that paint?

[Major_Gilbear]

Well, I'll look tonight for you as promised.

I have both, and switched to the Battlefield brown because I only have a little Scorched brown left and the difference wasn't enough to show on a finished model (IMO).

I normally highlight Battlefield by adding first some flesh (although I do sometimes use a ruddier flesh like P3 Khardic flesh if I want a more terracotta hue), and then a bone colour - just like your photo below.

However, Umbral Umber is a cooler and slightly darker colour - more blue/green than red in hue, and when you highlight it (with bone and similar colours especially) it can look a little powdery and grey. It's a good colour, but not if you want a match for Scorched brown.

//Edit: Umbral Umber looks (to me) more like Charred brown than Scorched brown in your photo//

From the Vallejo range, I suspect Chocolate brown from the Model Colour series might work. I don't think I have this to show you unfortunately, but I've seen it used a lot in various tutorials and it looks like it probably has enough warmth from what I can tell.

[Andym]

If you're willing to stick with GW, Doombull Brown seems to be a goid equivalent.

[Vermis]

From the Vallejo range, I suspect Chocolate brown from the Model Colour series might work. I don't think I have this to show you unfortunately, but I've seen it used a lot in various tutorials and it looks like it probably has enough warmth from what I can tell.

I'd have to recheck the bottles and pots I have, but like all the others, VMC choc still isn't quite as red as scorched brown! Some other dark reddish browns in the Vallejo stable, though. I wonder how mahogany would compare?

I wonder if plain old burnt umber would work,  too? Burnt umber with a bit of burnt sienna? That springs to mind when I see the flesh colours you mix with scorched brown.

[Charlie_]

Thanks for all the help so far everyone!

Decisions, decisions...

Looks like the ones I should try out are....

Citadel Rhinox Hide - Apparently replaced Scorched Brown, so it should be the same, but of course might not be. This would be the simplest answer.

Citadel Doombull Brown - This is apparently what used to be Dark Flesh, and probably mixes with flesh and bone the way I like, but not as dark as Scorched Brown. Could work well, I could actually basecoat with the dark Vallejo Charred Brown happily and use this one for my flesh and bone reddish blends.

Vallejo Mahogany Brown - Is apparently the same as the above Doombull Brown, but of course might not be!

I could alway get all three, it wouldn't exactly break the bank.

[Overrevdsquat]

Late to the  party, but Coat d'arms do red brown ...
http://www.blackhat.co.uk/online_shop/product_info.php?cPath=21_41&products_id=171&osCsid=jtbqq0u9ijgqnt8d0pojcvkir1

And slightly lighter brick red:
http://www.blackhat.co.uk/online_shop/product_info.php?cPath=21_41&products_id=160&osCsid=jtbqq0u9ijgqnt8d0pojcvkir1

[Major_Gilbear]

I've attached a photo of all three paints to this post.

The Scorched brown is indeed more red then either of the P3 equivalents. However, when dry I do find the difference is very modest - as i said before, I use Battlefield now and add a fleshtone that's a bit more red for highlights instead.

I think I have Mahogany brown as well (really, I have far to much effing paint!  ), and will see if I can find it for you later. My memory of it is that it's more terracotta-brown than red-brown though.

[westwaller]

Okay here's my t'uppenny worth- Charred brown definitely is not a good match for scorched brown- it is somewhat duller, perhaps even having a slight grey hue to it? It is similar to Model colour German camo black brown.
Model colour Flat brown is very close, but not an exact match for scorched earth brown, as it is not as rich a colour.
Model colour Chocolate brown (I have just had a look at the two) is very close to Scorched earth, except that the Chocolate brown is not as dark.

Basically it seems to me, that scorched earth is a very similar colour to the traditional artists paint Burnt Umber- Model colour burnt umber is for some reason, NOT the same colour.

[Charlie_]

Model colour Chocolate brown (I have just had a look at the two) is very close to Scorched earth, except that the Chocolate brown is not as dark.

This is promising - it doesn't have to be as dark. Does Chocolate Brown have that red hue?