Sometimes shops run by gamers just boggle my mind...

[FramFramson]

I think we've all known the usual sort of terrible store with bad service, or rude staff, or just plain incompetent owners. They don't live very long unless they've got some other bag, like ripping off small children playing Yu Gi Oh or such, but even the supposedly better-run stores sometimes amaze me now and again.

There is, very unfortunately, only one really properly large store in Toronto that carries minis (not counting the outer suburbs) and really the only one that carries non-GW paints. Now, they're so very large that it's quite nice! They have tons of minis including many more obscure lines. But the service... my god! There are a couple rude ones, but "there's always one", what struck me more is how overall the staff seem nervous, stiff, and awkward, like they expect to be attacked at any moment.

And they cannot even answer basic questions. Quite funny, I was wondering when they might get some more Vallejo paints. This is the only shop I can get Vallejo Game Colour without mail-ordering it, quite unfortunately, and their stock-keeping is appallingly poor and they are regularly out of most staple paints. I figure this is a fairly basic question, that one might ask any store. Well the staff didn't know - I got a "We have 5000 items on order at any time, I have no idea. Sorry." Alright well who do I ask then? They told me to speak with the manager. Alright fair enough, I waited for the manager to be in that week and asked. Well they didn't know either - it's the owner who orders, you see, and only he knows the magic secret. You'll have to email him direct. Okay sure. Oh but he's on vacation, but he'll be back next week. Okay, no hurry, I'll ask then.

Email goes off to the owner himself. What reply do I get? "We have 5000 items on order at any time, I have no idea. Sorry."

Now, I'm wondering what sort of operation they're running here that literally no one there keep any records of orders placed at all? That seems... unusual. Not to mention out of keeping with just about every professional (and not-so professional) retail operation I've worked for or dealt with.

I mean, this is 2015 and the business is not an old one - are they really using handwritten ledgers? Or nothing at all? Are there no digital records of any kind made of the orders? Because even something as crude as an email account, a simple excel spreadsheet, or even a text file, would be searchable for a keyword or keywords like "Vallejo".

I mean, that seems crazy for any other industry! 5000+ floating orders is an ridiculous amount of cash to hold in flux without any sort of functional accounting. Leaving aside any customer service issues, that seems like an awfully easy way for large amounts of money and stock to go astray. And indeed this very same store has had to shut down their store play area to redesign the entire store layout due to the severity of shoplifting. But when it's gamers we just sort of nod our heads wearily and give each other knowing looks about "stores run by gamers" and accept it. It's nuts.

[Poiter50]

I found that the young girl in Toronto's major store was very helpful. It may have been that I went there 3 days running as I reconsidered more and more of what I had found the previous day. She actually went and found Reaper stuff on my Wants list. They had been removed from the racks as they were doing a partial stock take. Didn't get all I wanted but perhaps 2/3 of my list thanks to her.

Must say that most of the males were downright disinterested and dismissive.

[Ragnar]

Dump them.  Buy all your stuff on line.  They do not deserve your business.

[Hu Rhu]

Whilst used to support my local brick and mortar store because I believe they deserved my custom, they offered a good service and very good prices. I liked to spend time in the store and chat to the staff to keep up to date with what else is out there. 

However I have found that over time their service and competence has waned so much that few of my orders were filled promptly and some not at all. The shelves are increasingly bare or have large gaps of stock in particular areas, brought about by staffing changes and a very noticable shift of emphasis from in store sales to online sales.

I now buy most of my stuff on line (but rarely from them) and use them only for staples such as paint etc, spending very little time in the store as a consequence.  I consider this a loss for both of us.

[Wyrmalla]

How are they booking that many order if its not held on at least spreadsheets? Paper? Are they doing it by memory? They aught to have it stored on a computer somewhere, which if its kept in a vaguely sane manner should be possible to query.

Saying that why they didn't just put an order in for more paints instead of making you wait weeks is a tad silly. Considering that had they just ordered the stuff originally you would have had it by now, though that may have been down to you not asking (and them not having the initiative to say "oh you've been waiting ages and nobody seems to be able to give you an answer. If we somehow can't query our system to find if they're on order then we may as well order them anyway as there's certainly a demand for them").

...So both a bad IT and a poor customer handling issue here by the looks of it. =P

[The Gray Ghost]

In my opinion most B&M stores go out of business because of poor customer service.
One I know for sure was more into the card side of the hobby and when that phase passed around here he was left with nothing. 

[grant]

I've ordered from that big Toronto store, and found equally horrid service. If it's online and point and click, I get my stuff in about 7 days. That's good.

If I want something that's showing as incoming, or whatever they call it, I've long given up emailing to ask about it, as I too have gotten the 5900 items and we don't care answer.

Awful. Eventually they will die.

However, the local big shop also has had some negative changes; one of the staff indicated if I want Vallejo model air I should send an email. I did. The answer was custom order, we don't have space. I will continue driving 150km to buy it then; they didn't care.

Never used to be like that when the owner was there all the time - he's semi retired now, and his store is the worse for it.

[nic-e]

I have to say i know what you mean. I'm lucky enough to have a pretty big store in leicester, they do alot of buisness online and they used to be well stocked and tidy. Now it seems the staff only stock in the games that interest them which means there are about 4000 different types of card game in a big pile on the floor and all the miniatures pushed to the edge of the room in random piles.They NEVER seem to restock the shelves, and the staff all seem so anxious at any given time that it isnt worth asking to get something specific if you can't find it rummaging through the piles.

[FramFramson]

How are they booking that many order if its not held on at least spreadsheets? Paper? Are they doing it by memory? They aught to have it stored on a computer somewhere, which if its kept in a vaguely sane manner should be possible to query.

Saying that why they didn't just put an order in for more paints instead of making you wait weeks is a tad silly. Considering that had they just ordered the stuff originally you would have had it by now, though that may have been down to you not asking (and them not having the initiative to say "oh you've been waiting ages and nobody seems to be able to give you an answer. If we somehow can't query our system to find if they're on order then we may as well order them anyway as there's certainly a demand for them").

...So both a bad IT and a poor customer handling issue here by the looks of it. =P

To be fair, the thought that he just couldn't be bothered to look also crossed my mind. I supposed I was giving him the benefit of the doubt that he's merely an idiot and not simply a prick. But the staff seemed genuinely bewildered that anyone would even ask "How long before you get more of this basic staple hobby thing that you seem to be very bad at keeping in stock?" as if this was some sort of crazy moon-man request about space cheese. I gathered that most people who ask that question just roll their eyes and leave after the staff tells them they don't know.

I'd buy online, but I hate the thought of paying $10 shipping to get two or three $4 bottles of paint irks me, dammit.

To be fair, there's a dedicated model kit shop (they still exist!) near me with fantastic service and a pretty large paint selection - Wheels & Wings. But they don't have the Vallejo Game Colour (it's the opaques I want - I'm liking them quite a lot for my undercoats) and can't special order it without adding that whole line to their digital catalogue, so they don't. Fair go.

Might be an excuse to see if there are any shops out in the Kitchener or Waterloo area that carry the Game Colour line. Sure, gas for the motorbike for a trip like that is probably more than $10, but really that's just an excuse to go for an afternoon jaunt.

[FramFramson]

By the by, they have basically no minis-related products (they do mainly board games, action figures, and card games like Magic - he used to do Warmachine, but got out of that), but by far the best game store in Toronto is 401 Games.

John, the owner, is just the best guy and while I can hardly claim to be a close friend of his, I've known him for nearly 20 years and he has always tried to be as helpful and friendly as possible. He's half-retired now, but he still hires staff that are courteous and friendly, and lots of them, plus they have good systems with plenty of information, so the staff is well-supported and not overworked.

[Legion1963]

Indeed. Although i do like to browse through a B & M store i tend to agree with Ragnar. ;-)

[Captain Blood]

But the service... my god! There are a couple rude ones, but "there's always one", what struck me more is how overall the staff seem nervous, stiff, and awkward, like they expect to be attacked at any moment.

Ever visited the UK, Fram? Orc's Nest in central London sounds like it's run by the same people. Or their relatives.
It's more or less the only wargames shop in the centre of London, right in the super-expensive heart of the West End shopping and theatre district. God knows how they afford the rent - even though it's a pokey little two-floor store. To their credit, they actually manage to pack in a surprising amount of stock, especially upstairs where they keep all the boardgames, miniatures rules and accessories, and a very respectable selection of Perry, Warlord and other plastic boxed sets. 

Unfortunately, the staff are a selection of dyed-in-the-wool miserablists. Every time I go in there, I get scowled at, then either pointedly ignored, or watched very ostentatiously as a deterrence to shoplifting. Never a smile, or a hello or goodbye - nothing. Just bad vibes and negative waves. I do occasionally buy things, which doesn't seem to make much difference to the all-pervasive chilliness. If only they were nice, friendly people, I'd almost certainly buy a lot more. But they're not. So I think - 'why should I bother?'

I guess perhaps I'd be bored, depressed and miserable if I was scraping a living in a tiny but very expensive premises in the heart of the metropolis, where I'm sure many more people wander in to goggle and browse, than to buy... But then, that's the nature of hobby-based shops, surely... It's no reason to glare at / ignore potential customers. It's the total antithesis of the hideously over-enthusiastic GW puppy 'I'm-your-very-best-friend-and-tell-me-all-about-you-so-I-can-sell-you-more-stuff' in-store experience.

Something in the middle would be nice. Just friendly, professional, efficient service with even half a smile. But it seems rare indeed in this business... Weird

[frogimus]

My son was in a neighboring (small) city for a academic competition and we went in a store I hadn't been in for a couple years. The previous owner and clientele were very inviting and helpful. The new guys, not so much.

We did pick up a couple of board games and an expansion we'd been interested in and (since they weren't priced) I braced myself for some dickering. The very bored looking guy at the register looked the stuff over and charged me $60. LOL, retail on one of them was $79 and another was about $50.

Gotta love people that don't know squat about prices.

[Admiral Alder]

I'm from a small sea-side UK town, it has seen about 3 or 4 Gaming shops, but only one has survived for the last 20 odd years, honestly, some of the stories I've accumulated of the "mixed" customer service could fill books. I have no idea how it stays open; its opening hours change weekly, there's no stock on the shelves, and the owner's dog is a bigger draw than the shop itself.
On one occasion my queries were met with: "You can buy [item x] cheaper at a show,"
Later I wanted to order in a specific blister pack, but was told making orders was too much hassle.

The best part is it's on trip advisor, listed as a Planetarium.
I've honestly come to the conclusion that all gaming shops are run in the same manner, and their niche market combined with some of the more "eccentric" clientele means there isn't a lot of competition.

[Poiter50]

Wheels & Wings is great for plastic hobby kits and related components with friendly service. Went there a few years back while visiting rellies.

JJ Collectibles in Waterloo is OK, staff are reasonable but limited in their range.

Forbes Hobbies in Cambridge is not bad and Jeremy is always good for a chat but limited in stock, often because of supplier problems (mostly US based as North American distributors).

Recent visits to both of the latter yielded zip but an enjoyable chat at both. The better experience was in the UK on the same trip when in Nottingham, Evesham and Empress's location. Pleasant reception from Arcane, Warlord, North Star, Empress and North Star. Arrangements to collect or view stuff at Attack were also made with Britannia and great service from Tumbling Dice, Colonel Bills and other people at the same show.

To be fair, the thought that he just couldn't be bothered to look also crossed my mind. I supposed I was giving him the benefit of the doubt that he's merely an idiot and not simply a prick. But the staff seemed genuinely bewildered that anyone would even ask "How long before you get more of this basic staple hobby thing that you seem to be very bad at keeping in stock?" as if this was some sort of crazy moon-man request about space cheese. I gathered that most people who ask that question just roll their eyes and leave after the staff tells them they don't know.

I'd buy online, but I hate the thought of paying $10 shipping to get two or three $4 bottles of paint irks me, dammit.

To be fair, there's a dedicated model kit shop (they still exist!) near me with fantastic service and a pretty large paint selection - Wheels & Wings. But they don't have the Vallejo Game Colour (it's the opaques I want - I'm liking them quite a lot for my undercoats) and can't special order it without adding that whole line to their digital catalogue, so they don't. Fair go.

Might be an excuse to see if there are any shops out in the Kitchener or Waterloo area that carry the Game Colour line. Sure, gas for the motorbike for a trip like that is probably more than $10, but really that's just an excuse to go for an afternoon jaunt.