Looking for a Squad based "fantasy skirmish" game

[affun]

Have you looked at GW's Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit Stategy Battle Game?  It is organized into groups (warbands) of up to 12 warriors, each of which must be lead by a "hero" (named or generic).  It can handle anything from just 2-3 heroes alone, up to 30-50 warriors plus their associated heroes with ease.  Much larger than that and I find it starts to slow down with just one player per side, but if you are determiend it still works for even larger forces.

Its obviously written for the Middle-Earth venue, but there are enough different troop types in the game that you can probably find one that comes close to your conception of any fantasy race.  

I actually enjoy those rules a LOT, but prefer the pre-hobbit pre-warband version: Cleaner design. I find it gets a bit fiddly with bases less than 25mm though, with the 1" knockback and 1" zone of control being easier to play as a base width.
Am considering it, though. Its a nice set of rules thats sadly undersued and looked down upon due to the license by a lot of people.

[mdauben]

I actually enjoy those rules a LOT, but prefer the pre-hobbit pre-warband version: Cleaner design.

I agree to an extent about pre-Hobbit.  I'm not sure the changes in the Hobbit rulebook really did anything to improve the game, rather than just adding additional complications.  I don't recall exactly when the warband rules were added, but I do like that they require you to include a minimum number of heroes in your list.  Still, its not important enough to me to refuse to play without them.   

I find it gets a bit fiddly with bases less than 25mm though, with the 1" knockback and 1" zone of control being easier to play as a base width.

Yeah, I can see how that would cause problems.  I suppose you could reduce the ranges to match the smaller figures, but that would require you to refigure all the movement, shooting, influence, etc. ranges in the game.

[affun]

I agree to an extent about pre-Hobbit.  I'm not sure the changes in the Hobbit rulebook really did anything to improve the game, rather than just adding additional complications.  I don't recall exactly when the warband rules were added, but I do like that they require you to include a minimum number of heroes in your list.  Still, its not important enough to me to refuse to play without them.   

True. Warband rules add some structure as well, and it is admittedly pretty cool in a project sense, as you can model and paint individual warbands as units, with a centerpiece leader/hero to tie them together.

It is a severely underplayed system, at any rate. I am thinking of using it for Ancients skirmish and small battles. I actually base most of my larger fantasy stuff with SBG in mind, even though its been waaaay too long since I played it.

Yeah, I can see how that would cause problems.  I suppose you could reduce the ranges to match the smaller figures, but that would require you to refigure all the movement, shooting, influence, etc. ranges in the game.

A quick fix would be to just use their cm measurements, as my basing currently is 20mm washers. Or just refigure the knockback distance to being 1 basewidth, regardless of base size. Still, theres a lot of showing miniatures back and forth in the game, and it felt quite fiddly in some of the testgames I tried. (I actually have a AAR of an attempt somewhere in my painting log)

For now I am looking at Saga, having allready made a 4 point warband out of the orcs I have lying around. Grabbing some pics of that tomorrow, when there is enough light.

[Argonor]

For now I am looking at Saga, having allready made a 4 point warband out of the orcs I have lying around. Grabbing some pics of that tomorrow, when there is enough light.

Just remembered: There's a guy on here that has made (free) fantasy rules for SAGA:

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=81709.0

And there are some fan-made Middle-Earth battleboards out there, too (I have them, somewhere on my harddrive, should you need them).

[Napalm Backflip]

I've got far too many miniatures rulesets floating around my game room and hard drive. Here's what I've seen that fits the fantasy skirmish bill. Some I've played, some I haven't, but hopefully this helps in some small way.

Ares - 'Stat your own model' skirmish
Brink of Battle - 'Stat your own model' skirmish, multi-genre
Bushido - Eastern themed fantasy skirmish
Darklands
Fantacide
Goalsystem Delves - RPG / Minis hybrid
Godslayer
Iron & Honor
Mordheim - A classic. Tons of free material online
No Quarter
Of Gods and Mortals
Reaper Warlord - Tremendously underrated. Great system
Savage Worlds Showdown
Song of Blades and Heroes
Wrath of Kings - a little bit more on the massive side of skirmish, but fantastic system and very characterful models

[DragonReborn]

Hi there, from what you are saying it would seem that Bladestorm almost perfectly fits the bill, too.

The system allows the construction of individual heroes and monsters that can also be organized in units. You can attach leaders to a unit or have individual heroes running around. The system would also lend itself to having an adventuring party face a bunch of monsters in a campaign setting. Each miniature has a card with it's values. Units have all combatants on a single card.

Bladestorm knows spells and maneuvers in it's optional rules. Especially maneuvers are great fun.

If you are interested in being part of a project: We're currently in the process of carving version 2.0 out of the block. This will see the introduction of an experience point system. Since every creature you defeat carries a point value, you'll earn experience from it which in turn you can spend on improving your heroes.

What's Bladestorm's USP?

One dice roll decides if you hit and the amount of damage you deal.

[joshuaslater]

Reaper's Warlord game.  You'd have to convert inches down to centimeters, but it could work.

[mdauben]

For now I am looking at Saga, having allready made a 4 point warband out of the orcs I have lying around. Grabbing some pics of that tomorrow, when there is enough light.

I've heard a lot of good things about Saga, and there are some people in my local group who are playing.  I've been trying to hook up with one of them to get a test game in but our schedules have not meshed yet. 

[Polkovnik]

I am on the lookout for a ruleset that plays well with squads of 3-12 models, where 12 is large, and between 10 and 30 miniatures per side.

So thats why I started this topic: Do any of you guys per chance know a ruleset that fits that mold? I'd be very interested to see if theres one I've missed.

I am currently working on something exactly like what you are looking for - a unit-based large skirmish set of rules for fantasy and historical battles. PM me if you are interested in playtesting.

http://polkovnik.moonfruit.com/

[Hobgoblin]

I played a game of Lion Rampant at the weekend with the kids and was reminded of this thread. We were using the Dragon Rampant rules that Dan has discussed on his blog (especially strength points), and the game worked terrifically well.

We played with goblins on one side and reptiles on the other. The goblins had 43 models in total, and the reptiles just 12 (but all but one of their units were reduced-model monstrosities: dinosaurs and the like. Anyway, it worked extremely well at around the model count you're looking for. The book-keeping with the reduced-model units was sufficiently light that the seven-year-old in charge of the reptiles could manage it easily by himself.

I think the way that combat works in LR/DR - with "clashes" rather than scrums - is particularly suitable for a squad-level skirmish. It gives a nice feel of nervous soldiers as much concerned with their own preservation as with killing the enemy. And the wild-charge rules and the interactions of different troop types with terrain are tremendous.