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Author Topic: More in hope than expectation...  (Read 5232 times)

Offline Ray Rivers

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 5911
Re: More in hope than expectation...
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2015, 11:24:00 AM »
I love big battle games... tis how I entered the hobby. Remember it to this day. Was in a fair in Alexandria, VA and saw a group of guys playing an AWI game in 25mm on a great table and fell in love.

Personally, I have great admiration for folks who want to take on ACW and Napoleonics in 25mm. Sooo much work goes into those games that people don't appreciate.

When I first started, I joined a group and we were 8 guys dedicated to Big Battles. It sure is a lot easier to do Big Battles when you are in a dedicated group. We did ACW and Napoleonics in 15mm and Ancients in 28mm, so to have plenty of room to maneuver on the tabletop. That was a long time ago.

Having said that I agree with Captain Blood in that this forum's history was never really focused on Big Battles. The fact that it has grown so much and pulled in folks from pretty much every nook and cranny of miniatures gaming is a good thing.

I wish I could comment more on the stuff that folks are doing here, but to be quite honest, with so many things going on, it is rather difficult. A normal visit finds me looking first at "Show new replies to your posts" and then a quick scan of new stuff using "View the most recent posts on the forum." After that I normally run away to another web site as part of my daily routine.

So don't be disheartened. Keep it up. There ARE folks who are interested, but time means I'm lucky to make a single post or so before I'm off to somewhere else.

Offline julesav

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 468
Re: More in hope than expectation...
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2015, 01:54:41 PM »
"Personally I find a lack of comment less frustrating than those who contribute throwaway comments on thread after thread, just for the sake of saying something because they feel they have to."

Oh dear! Now I don't know whether I should comment, or not?

"Some scientists say that humans exhibit a behavior called neophilia, which is a preference for new objects. It’s why we like shiny new things."

Offline Ray Rivers

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 5911
Re: More in hope than expectation...
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2015, 03:34:12 PM »
Just a couple more thoughts...

When one speaks about "throwaway comments" I must say that I'm quite guilty of that. So yep, I'll post a "nice looking game and nice minis" comment when I see something interesting. But I just don't do that solely to give a person a pat on the back, I do it most times as a bookmark. By making a "throwaway comment" when I return to the forum and I click "Show new replies to your posts" if something is going on on that thread I get an immediate heads up. So, they may seem gratuitous, but actually, because of the sheer volume of stuff posted here, they serve to help me return to a thread that I actually have interest, even though I might not have a lot to say.

As for the topic at hand... one way to generate more interest is to use the "blog thread" system. A long time ago I was painting a couple VSF armies and I ran 2 threads, one dedicated to building the US army and the other to building the Egyptian army. Any time I had new stuff I always posted them on these threads. It is kinda like a continuing story and I am doing the same thing now with my Age of Sigmar stuff. Captain Blood has done the same thing with his medieval marvels and the Prof has done the same with his Roman project. Indeed, lots of folks now use the "blog thread" system because not only is it a continuing story of your adventures with minis, but over time it fills with content and I think people like that a lot.

So perhaps you might consider doing something on that line... Perhaps a blog thread on your battle AARs, for example. Could be a better way to get more response than a single thread which is competing with literally hundreds of different on-going projects here at LAF.

Anyway, good luck and happy gaming.

Offline AlyMorrison

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 731
Re: More in hope than expectation...
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2015, 04:21:25 PM »
Hmmmmm! No Comment... lol

No really... A lovely looking game David... as always... :D

All the best   Aly
YES!... I KNOW I AM A BUTTERFLY.
http://alystoysoldiers.blogspot.co.uk

Offline Arlequín

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 6218
  • Culpame de la Bossa Nova...
Re: More in hope than expectation...
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2015, 05:54:01 PM »
I do agree such armies are becoming a rarity, it appears the "cheap" plastic revolution as not helped to revive the big army either.

I was too busy trying to be funny to notice this earlier. I also thought that the advent of 'historicals' in plastic would see the return of big battle games... like many here that was my entry point to 'the hobby' too.

While the bulk of my interests do tend to focus on 20th C 'platoon actions', I have promised myself that when time and tide allow, I will have some 'proper' large medieval armies... although they will be mostly plastic.

 ;)

Offline Captain Blood

  • Global Moderator
  • Elder God
  • Posts: 19311
Re: More in hope than expectation...
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2015, 10:27:23 PM »
I'm sure you are right on both counts Richard, but I will continue to evangelise those poor souls who fiddle with a few figures and think they are warpgaming, not to mention the aberration which is plastic, zombies, gnomes and fairies. ;)

lol

Well I'm with you on the zombies, gnomes and fairies, David. I assure you no-one detests zombies more than me.
The virtues of plastic, we'll just have to disagree on.
As far as skirmish gaming goes, having spent my formative wargaming years in the 70's / 80's endlessly marching two lines of ranked-up figures towards each other to various turgid WRG ancient and Napoleonic rule-sets, I'm afraid the 'big battle' no longer holds any fascination for me. I find more free-form skirmish format gaming (yes, even involving 150 figures a side) simply more fun, more visually appealing and more rewarding.
Different strokes I suppose :)


Offline Arlequín

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 6218
  • Culpame de la Bossa Nova...
Re: More in hope than expectation...
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2015, 01:35:09 AM »
As far as skirmish gaming goes, having spent my formative wargaming years in the 70's / 80's endlessly marching two lines of ranked-up figures towards each other to various turgid WRG ancient and Napoleonic rule-sets, I'm afraid the 'big battle' no longer holds any fascination for me. I find more free-form skirmish format gaming (yes, even involving 150 figures a side) simply more fun, more visually appealing and more rewarding.

Ditto.  :)

Offline tin shed gamer

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • *
  • Posts: 3333
Re: More in hope than expectation...
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2015, 03:11:46 AM »
To be honest big games like this are beyond my storage let alone budget.I admire the sheer amount of time your willing to dedicate to just set up the table for the first turn! I've only ever set up one game of a similar size (unless you count for work)we took one look at it thought it looked pretty and headed to the pub.
As for the continued popularity of big games its on the rise as this last two months I've done little but rework both old and new civil war figures for a company.
People don't always comment not because what you do isn't worthy of comment ,more there's only so many ways to say it looks good.
I myself have threads were I've a few commentators but plenty of hits(my railway one being the oddest for this)If we're truthful at some point we all end up feeling like Billy no mates when we've gone to all this effort and no ones noticed Its human nature.
I've stated openly before now I'd rather have one question on my thread than pages of platitudes.But I still catch myself thinking (Hello?) if no does ,again it's not vanity it's just a natural response.
The main reason I don't game on this scale is the time,where on earth do you find the time to paint a build such a personal project? I do admire the effort involved especially when I know deep down I'm far to flakey to stick at it.
Personally I head straight to display games which are this well executed and rarely look at skirmish display games as they always feel lazy by comparison (at least until I've found the bar).
Mark.

Offline Silent Invader

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 9636
Re: More in hope than expectation...
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2015, 04:08:51 AM »
Interesting points one and all.  :)

I tend to run the project blog (plog) threads myself but they are primarily - and this will sound damn selfish  ;) - for my own benefit as they provide a ready reference to which, unsurprisingly, I regularly refer (and in time summarise to my own website).  Interest from fellow LAFers is very much a bonus for a variety of reasons ranging from technical to banter. And I do very much enjoy the chit chat that accompanies a build thread - after all, this can be a geographically lonesome hobby - but it's not expected. Something I noticed with this years WW1 project is that a lot of the viewers were guests rather than members (or maybe just weren't signed in and we all have sooooo many devices now, who doesn't sometimes view as a guest?).

As regards big games with thousands of figures, I personally prefer 30-300 minis in individually-based narrative style games, that by their very nature require less calculation. I guess that in my gaming I want less of the cold hard science and more of the warm soft art, as that is what I need to slip down into fuzzy relax mode.  :D

PS: zombies are okay but my personal no-no is 'magic'!
My LAF Gallery is HERE
Minis (foot & mounted) finished in 2024 = 0
(2023 = 151; 2022 = 204; 2021 = 123; 2020 = ???)

Online Yankeepedlar01

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2346
    • http://talesfromghq.blogspot.com/2011/11/you-are-very-welcome-at-tales-from-ghq.html
Re: More in hope than expectation...
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2015, 07:40:23 AM »
Well I'm with you on the zombies, gnomes and fairies, David. I assure you no-one detests zombies more than me.

The virtues of plastic, we'll just have to disagree on.

Different strokes I suppose :)
Well, three out of four is not bad! As you rightly infer the hobby is a broad church with plenty of room for games of all sizes. My original intent was to see if I could flush out a few fellow travellers and stimulate some discussion. I'm pleased by the response on both counts. I shall continue to post my 'traditionally sized' wargames as well as comment on others' efforts of a different sort.
"There is no point in being stupid unless you show it!"

http://talesfromghq.blogspot.co.uk/

Offline duc de limbourg

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 353
  • aldegarde.blogspot.com
Re: More in hope than expectation...
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2015, 11:13:22 AM »
These look great.
Love big battles with a lot of figures.
On the other hand, I also love good skirmish games.
Both games, and everything in between, need good terrain, good figures and a decent scenario then they will be enjoyable

Offline jon_1066

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 909
Re: More in hope than expectation...
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2015, 01:25:22 PM »
I think the lower relative popularity is perhaps to do with the concept of scale.  If you paint up your minis and get terrain together it "feels better" if what you see is what is there.  ie the ground scale and miniatures at 1:1 allows a more immersive experience.  The compromises and mental gymnastics to say these 20 figures equals an entire division and this house represents that village is too much for me.

Offline Hammers

  • Amateur papiermachiéer
  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Elder God
  • *
  • Posts: 16070
  • Workbench and Pulp Moderator
Re: More in hope than expectation...
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2015, 01:31:49 PM »
Hello David  :)

To be fair I don't think this forum was ever aimed at, or has ever been a natural home for 'real wargamers' - if by that you mean, as I think you do, people who like massed formation battles in 'traditional' periods like ACW, Napoleonics, Ancients, or WW2.
It's always been aimed at, as the name suggests, adventure games, which tend to be more skirmish orientated and in more fringe periods and genres. So, nice-looking as your games always are, I'm not surprised they don't attract more comment. The audience for that kind of wargaming is very much a minority on this particular forum, and I don't really think that's anything new.


My impression also and the reason I've stuck around here for so long. I've always preferred games with a strong storytelling element rather.

Offline gorillacrab

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 179
  • Horse and Musket buff
Re: More in hope than expectation...
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2015, 12:00:10 AM »
I wanted to add a quick comment on "big battles".

I find it interesting that so many rule books, magazines and collectors feature units of 20, 24, 30 or 36 miniatures to represent a single unit, such as a battalion in a game.

Frankly, while these large units are impressive - they are not only prohibitively expensive but they impose an enormous "footprint" on your playing area. We play Napoleonic or SYW games with 12-15 figures per battalion (even fewer for cavalry squadrons). The result is we still get the same number of figures on the table, but the smaller units allow more units - and provide more space for tactical choices that make the game interesting.

Unless you are playing in an uncommonly special setting with vast area, I've found that visually impressive games with large units squeezed onto a tight table are less rewarding to play. If all you can do is march forward and let dicing decide the day, it's not the best of games. Better to keep the same number of figures, have more units, and allow players to have more choices.

Keeping base sizes "reasonable" to reduce the footprint of units helps as well. Something to consider
- GC



Prof Challenger, I presume?

Offline Jabba

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 540
    • Jabba's Wargaming
Re: More in hope than expectation...
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2015, 10:40:23 AM »
Hi David,

Great pictures of some great looking games. Having only being a wargamer for less than a year I was fortunate to join a club that is very much into Big battles and has the space available to put on and more importantly store the resources this requires.

Recently we played the afternoon attack at Talavera in 28mm (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=82705.msg1014916#msg1014916) and this weekend we are staging Waterloo in 28mm over two and a half days with approx 5,000 minitures planned to be used.
This year has also seen day three of Gettesburg in 15mm and D-Day in, I think, 20mm. So big games are alive and well if you have the space and the nutters to build all the armies, scenery needed :)

As gorillacrab commented base sizing also plays a part, we use Shako II basing for the club Napoleonics giving 18 figure infantry battalions and 9-12 figure cavalry units. This helps to keep the costs down as less figures required per unit and also allows more units to be represented on the table top.

Keep up the good work and postings

Tony.

(pics of Waterloo will be forthcoming no doubt)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 10:45:02 AM by Jabba »

 

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