Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)

[Johnno]

I quite liked it. And I'll probably see it again next week.

That being said, I had a few issues with the acting, story line etc but visually it looked and felt like Star Wars to me.

I've heard from a friend that there is a team behind Star Wars who have to approve everything, to keep it consistent. They don't want to mess storylines up. So accepted cannon or legends may no longer be so. Has anyone else heard about this?

[FramFramson]

That used to be the case with Lucasfilm. I would assume Disney has some kind of staff who at least look at continuity, but if they're the same people or if their roles are as substantial or comprehensive as what Lucasfilm had, well, I have no idea.

[chromedog]

I liked it.
I also hated fury road (I liked mad max and road warrior (aka Mad Max 2) there were no other mad max movies.

Also found Jedi to be cool when I was 14.  32 years later, it doesn't stand up to watching again.  Unless you skip the teddy bear scenes. 

[Zaheer]

I think if you remove the nostalgia glasses it comes off very poorly.

I'm of an age where I never got fitted for nostalgia glasses, and I think because of this I enjoyed this one more than any other Star Wars film. Smiled a bit, chuckled a lot and was kept entertained all the way through. This may be because I have never had particularly high expectations of Etar Wars and went in thinking 'I want popcorn fun, put the brain into neutral' and was rewarded for that attitude. Like Mason said (or quoted), I got pretty much what I expected from Star Wars, but a fair bit more than I hoped.

[Momotaro]

Hey Zaheer - you're making Force Awakens scenery now!  

As for the film... if you enjoyed it, more power to you!

[Zaheer]

Hey Zaheer - you're making Force Awakens scenery now!  

Yes, that's a happy little accident isn't it!

[Gailbraithe]

I was mildly disappointed by the film.  Would have been hugely disappointed, except I've never once understood why anyone thinks JJ Abrams is a good director or screenwriter, as I've found all of his previous projects to be poorly plotted messes of  continuity snarls and flashy gimmick.  So I deliberately tampered my expectations.

I like Finn, though I don't think the character makes any sense at all.  The idea that Stormtroopers would be assigned sanitation jobs makes no sense to me, and absolutely nothing about Finn's behavior at any point in the film suggests this a guy who has been raised in a fanatical military order since birth.  I thought the actor was great, I like that they let him have human flaws, but it felt like the whole Stormtrooper background was tacked on to justify later elements of the plot.

I also like Kylo Ren a lot more than I thought I would.  I was really, truly shocked by how very good Adam Driver was in the role.  I found myself wishing he had played Anakin in the prequels, because I thought he came a lot closer to portraying a young, still immature, emotionally conflicted Darth Vader than Hayden Christensen.  I thought the revelation about his parentage was...cringeworthy (it smacks of "I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate."), but the character was pretty cool overall.

Then we have the film's villain, Rey.  Wow did I ever hate this character.  I have to completely agree with everything FramFramson said about her being the most Mary Sue to Mary Sue.  Her characterization seemed to consist entirely of jaw set in grim determination as she proceeded to prove herself superior to every character to ever feature in the series.  I think the only character that was ever close to being this ridiculously OP was Lil' Anakin in Phantom Menace, and she's every bit as annoying and obnoxious.  I think the most offensive suggestion of the entire film is that somehow she inherits the Falcon after knowing Han Solo for like two days.  Over Chewie.  This is anti-Wookie discrimination of the highest order.

Ignoring the poorly realized characters, we're left with the plot.  Which was great, when it was used in A New Hope.  Here it is far more poorly realized, with nearly everything being driven by coincidence and contrivance.  It's the difference between the brilliantly orchestrated plot that leads naturally to Luke and Han rescuing Leia from the Death Star and Han and Finn going to the Starkiller and happening to wander across Rey as she rescues herself (naturally we wouldn't want to show her ever need any of the other characters).

I don't want to go on too long, so I'll just talk about one small segment which I think summarizes all of the deep and terrible flaws in this movie:  In both A New Hope and The Force Awakens the heroes find themselves on the Millenium Falcon, travelling through hyperspace to meet up with the Rebellion/Resistance. 

In A New Hope this is one of the quieter moments of the film, where the characters are allowed to breathe and we get to learn about this amazing world we find ourselves in.  We get the Obi-Wan Training Luke scene, which explains The Force and sets up the film's climatic moment, and we get the great character moment between Chewie and R2D2 ("I suggest you let the Wookie win.").

In The Force Awakens the same story beat -- the quiet after a big action scene, travelling in the Falcon -- is used to show us Finn randomly picking up Luke's training sphere and casually tossing it aside, as if to say "Remember that scene in A New Hope?  Remember how much better that scene was than this one?" and is immediately followed up by Finn accidentally turning on the holographic game table, as if to say "Remember that scene in A New Hope?  Remember how much better that scene was than this one?"

And that is The Force Awakens in a nutshell.  A never ending series of scenes that ask us to recall better scenes in the original trilogy.

[Vermis]

I would assume Disney has some kind of staff who at least look at continuity, but if they're the same people or if their roles are as substantial or comprehensive as what Lucasfilm had, well, I have no idea.

I found myself wishing that, if Disney holds the reins now, they could've given it to John Lasseter instead of Abrams.

I like Finn, though I don't think the character makes any sense at all.  The idea that Stormtroopers would be assigned sanitation jobs makes no sense to me, and absolutely nothing about Finn's behavior at any point in the film suggests this a guy who has been raised in a fanatical military order since birth.  I thought the actor was great, I like that they let him have human flaws, but it felt like the whole Stormtrooper background was tacked on to justify later elements of the plot.

Yup! Though I didn't particularly like him. Like I said, I tried to, but he's just all over the place. Scattier than a... scatty thing.

When he mentioned he worked in sanitation, I half expected a 'wah wah waaahh!' bit in the soundtrack.

And that is The Force Awakens in a nutshell.  A never ending series of scenes that ask us to recall better scenes in the original trilogy.

Yes. I guess this is why it looks like Star Wars, but for me it didn't really feel like Star Wars. Not fully. More like... The Chronicles of Rey-ddick.

[Gailbraithe]

To expand on my problem with Finn:  Again, I really like John Boyega's performance, I found him very likeable and far more heroic than Rey Invincible.  But he shouldn't have been likeable.  He should ahev been a rigid, narrow-minded, poorly educated jerkass with no comprehension of how to interact with normal people.  He should have been deeply traumatized and express it through anger, intolerance and violence.  That's how a person actually raised within a fascistic military order to be an unthinking, emotionaless killer would actually be.  Even if they had a moment of clarity and realized , they would still be deeply traumatized and require years of unlearning before they could fit into normal society.

But Finn just seems like a normal guy.  If anything, he seemed like an escaped slave.  I don't mean to racialize it, because John Boyega is black, but that's what his portrayal made me think -- less disillusioned murderthug, more grateful to be finally be free slave.  In fact, he seems so normal, and not even misguided, that it raises a serious concern about the Stormtroopers.  Are they all just sacred child soldiers who haven't realized they are on the wrong side?  Because I've always assumed that the Stormtroopers were brutal, hateful thugs who took glee in terror and slaughter, that they were a hand-picked elite of the most ruthless, vicious and nasty thugs the Empire could round up (or clone).  And that makes mowing them down like blades of grass sort of morally neutral.

It's like, sure, blow up the Death Star.  Everyone on board is a huge asshole anyways.  But now with Finn, it raises this serious ethical quandary of you're basically killing a ton of innocent slaves.

I am almost certainly overthinking it, but to me it's just a sign of how slapped together these characters are and how sloppy the writing really was.  Finn's background seemed to have been added as an afterthought, as if to answer the question "Why would they send Finn to take down the deflector field?" rather than being the genesis of the character, and I really feel like that particular background/story -- a child raised from birth in a fascist military order who becomes disillusioned with being a murderthug -- demands more thought and more exploration than this movie was willing to give it.

[Agis]

Oh my again.  I fear I will avoid this thread, the sheer amount of negativity is a bit too much for me. 
I liked Ep I-III, I am used to be looked strangely at because of it , I really like Ep VII and I really do not like all the bad interpretation here.

Just one example:

...Then we have the film's villain, Rey.  ...  I think the most offensive suggestion of the entire film is that somehow she inherits the Falcon after knowing Han Solo for like two days.  Over Chewie.  This is anti-Wookie discrimination of the highest order.

Where and when in the movie is she inheriting the Falcon??? Is it really suggested?
She just flies WITH Chewie to Luke. For me it is just that, no less no more. Not worth a second of thoughts...
Maybe Leia and Chewie decided to just let here fly the Falcon for this one trip.
etc etc

IMO a lot of the above is always assuming the worst or bad thing. (or what the poster things is bad).
And all in all, please keep in mind - it is JUST A MOVIE! 

[Gailbraithe]

Just one example:Where and when in the movie is she inheriting the Falcon??? Is it really suggested?

She's in the captain's seat, while Chewie is serving as her co-pilot, which suggests she's the new captain of the Falcon and Chewie is now her sidekick, which would be entirely in line with the formula Luke + Han - Character Flaws = Rey. 

[mpennock]

I agree with Agis, I loved Episode VII. Of course, since I also enjoyed Episodes I-III you may feel free to ignore my opinion. 

[Hupp n at em]

Just saw it. Liked it. Thought Daisy Ridley acted the socks off the rest of them. Some very nice cinematic moments. Yes, a lot like the original Star Wars in many ways. But overall, different enough yet familiar enough to be enjoyable on its own terms, and as a worthy if somewhat belated follow up to the original trilogy. Looking forward to the extended edition 

Pretty much my thoughts.  I think the nostalgia goggles are in full effect here;  This movie is about as good as ROTJ, because frankly that movie doesn't hold a candle to ANH and ESB but is still competent and enjoyable.

I must have had lower expectations, because it met/exceeded mine.  Better than the prequels? check.  No endless scenes of walking/talking or shot/reverse shot conversation scenes? check.

I guess it kind of amazes me that people pick apart these plot hole inconsistencies because I didn't think this movie would ever have passed that test.  This movie was the reintroduction of Star Wars.  All the fan-servicey ANH nods and wink wink/nudge nudge moments were a little cringe-worthy but probably a bit necessary to win people back after the dumpster fire of the prequels; I have hope that with the franchise reestablished, they'll start telling more novel stories in future installments.

Hopefully no more death stars/starkillers/endless mcguffins though. Tired of that plot device.

[mpennock]

I note unlike the films detractors who have clearly stated why it sucked on many levels you have not stated why it is a good film other than you like movies most people dont.

The film's detractors have clearly stated why they dislike the film - whether that makes the film "suck" or not is open for debate. I happen to disagree with them, and really don't want to get into the realm of spoilers with a film that has only been out for a week. To be honest, it seems to me that based upon the expectations some people took into the theater with them, pretty much any film was going to be a disappointment.

Each to their own.

[The Somnambulist]

I still loved it!